AMD or Intel?

JP4LSU · 03-01-2006, 07:03 PM

Hey guys, I'm getting ready to build a system. I'm more familiar with Intel products and mobo's for intel's but, since I will be using this for a lot of gaming too, I think AMD will be the way to go.

Am I correct in claiming that AMD's are better at gaming?
I will also be using this for digital photos and Photoshop and hopefully some video stuff in the future. Will AMD still serve well in those areas?

I'm not nearly as familiar with AMD's and the naming and performance and likewise on the Mobo's. Initially I was looking at putting a system together with a 3.0ghz intel and an SLI mobo and PSU.

To get to the same processing speed as this in an AMD, what CPU would you recommend? What MOBO would be a good one?

Also for L2 Cache I was looking at the 1MB x 2 with a 800mhz FSB. What would be the AMD equivalent? Is Dual Core worth the money?

Any help and recommendations are appreciated.
Later

Addis · 03-01-2006, 07:14 PM

Depends on what you want to spend really. You're right in assuming that AMD are better for gaming. Not only that, the newer Venice and San Diego cores are superior in many other areas not just gaming.

Dual core at the moment is expensive, so for general usage and heavy gaming I'd recommend an Athlon 64 3500 venice, or if you want more performance a San Diego 3800. Cache isn't really an issue, the model numbers don't show clockspeed, they show overall performance relative to Intel and other Athlon 64s and take cache into account. But an AMD equivelent of Intel will usually outperform it.

AMDs will also have a lower power consumption and thus be easier to cool.

JP4LSU · 03-01-2006, 09:57 PM

Thanks Addis, this is my first build and have somewhat kept up with technology via websites etc. It seems I've always gravitated to Intel but the 600's seem to run very hot and it seems that the heat sink and fan should be upgraded.

Now after trolling around forums and reading reviews I am prolly getting the AMD. I will check out the Venice and will prolly stay away from dual core. I would rather spend money on a VidCard or RAM. I have a lot on my wishlist at Newegg and am getting ready to pull the trigger.

What about a Mobo? What are some good boards and brands for an AMD with SLI capability and DDR2 RAM?

Also, do I need to pay attention to L2 Cache? Is it really that big of a deal on AMD and what about the FSB speeds? Do they have a 800mhz FSB?

Addis · 03-01-2006, 10:04 PM

I believe the A64s use a special AMD tech called Hypertransport, which allows very fast communications between the CPU and northbridge. As far as I know, the 3500 venice uses a 1GHz FSB, and uses a 2x multiplier to make an effective 2GHz FSB. Again I'm not all to sure on the multiplier part.

Cache isn't really an issue, whats important is the model number which is used to show overall performance. Cache on most A64s is either 512k or 1MB depending on the model.

JP4LSU · 03-01-2006, 10:12 PM

Excellent. Thanks Addis for the info. I will hit up Newegg tonight and scope out the AMD's and check out some MOBO's.

What brands have had solid performance and quality for AMD? I've heard ASUS thrown around a lot and MSI.

Thanks for the help.

Anti-Trend · 03-01-2006, 10:17 PM

Look at Abit, Asus and DFI for good Socket 939 motherboards. I use mainly VIA chipsets, but I have heard very good things about the NF4.

KenshinX · 04-01-2006, 01:08 AM

I noticed you asked about DDR 2 AMD boards dont suppport DDR 2 ram, but do have dual channel support. Either way AMD processors still have a pretty big lead over intel in performance.

Big B · 04-01-2006, 02:31 AM

Right now, AMD-based systems don't use DDR2, but in the future, they will, simply because DDR2 can scale to speeds DDR can't.

Motherboards:
Asus A8N-SLI series --mature motherboard, oldest SLI board series.
MSI K8N *4 SLI --second most mature SLI motherboard behind Asus
DFI LanParty NF4 SLI-D/SLI-DR (DR has an additional 4 SATA ports for a total of 8)--Overclockers dream boards with tons of tweaks, I run an Ultra-D myself, and am rather pleased with it.
Gigabyte nForce 4 SLI---Probably the cheapest option out there, as some of these board are hovering just over $100, which is pretty cheap for a decent SLI board.

JP4LSU · 04-01-2006, 01:57 PM

Wow, I didn't know AMD mobo's didn't support DDR2. I wonder why they haven't done this yet. Is there word that they will have a DDR2 board soon?

Well you can tell I haven't researched AMD mobo's yet considering I didn't know that jewel of info. I was going to read up on them last night but the Orange Bowl ended up being a good game and I got sucked in to it.

Well DDR is fine, the RAM is cheaper

.

Another question though. I've never OC'd and I really don't plan on it. Will a stock AMD with DDR still perform with a similar Intel with DDR2 667mhz? What is your opinion?

Addis · 04-01-2006, 02:34 PM

DDR2 AMD mobos isn't the problem, the fact is that AMD doesn't see the reason at the moment to switch to DDR2. They are going to, but the higher latencies and higher costs wasn't worth the higher clock speeds. Probably did the right thing actually. DDR2 wouldn't work because AMD CPUs still don't support it, thats the reason. So the motherboards aren't the barrier here.

The new AM2 socket CPUs will support DDR2 though, but I think its still some months before they release.

To your question on oc, trust us that venice/san diego A64 will obliterate the "equivelent" P4 in gaming and most other applications too. DDR2 doesn't give intel that much of an advantage, as DDR2 also has higher latencies which tend to hurt AMD systems more.

harakim · 04-01-2006, 08:30 PM

AMD is great at gaming, but Intel prescotts are still better for lots of media stuff, despite what people say. If you are using photoshop for fun, it's probably not a big deal. If you were creating an entire magazine spread, you might care more. Also, Adobe is optimized for p4s, so they will obviously perform better as a result.

If you are going to be gaming, just get an AMD.
*Hates AMD*

Exfoliate · 04-01-2006, 10:04 PM

If Photoshope is a big deal go dual-core like the 3800+ Manchester and get a 2gigs or value ram, you'll really have it there. Intel is good in the video editing area particularly but the gap is really closing fast.
Why do you hate AMD?

harakim · 05-01-2006, 02:47 AM

I don't like how they do business. Bait and switch, lying, those just aren't my style. Not to mention they somehow convinced everyone that a 4400+ means comparable to a 4,4ghz processor of intel... I just don't like their way of business.

ninja fetus · 05-01-2006, 03:50 AM

if not comparable it surpasses the 4.4ghz intel in nearly every single synthetic benchmark. they may not be real actual results but they are close

beretta9m2f · 05-01-2006, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harakim

*Hates AMD*

I used to hate them too...then i got one, I love them! Now, i don't hate intel , at ALLLL, however if you want to talk about shady marketting look no further than video game ads. I saw an ad for a Tony Hawk game that said "works best with pentium 4 @ whatever ghz with Hyper Threading. The ad was boasting about HT , but games run on one thread so having the 2 logical processors doesn't boost gaming a bit. So they want you to blow the extra cash on a new processor with HT for gaming when it doesn't change a thing. Those liars. If i had a scanner i'd scan the page and link it, it wasn in a PC Gamer issue.

03-01-2006, 07:03 PM	#1 (permalink) Top
JP4LSU Geek Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 61 Status: Offline	AMD or Intel? Hey guys, I'm getting ready to build a system. I'm more familiar with Intel products and mobo's for intel's but, since I will be using this for a lot of gaming too, I think AMD will be the way to go. Am I correct in claiming that AMD's are better at gaming? I will also be using this for digital photos and Photoshop and hopefully some video stuff in the future. Will AMD still serve well in those areas? I'm not nearly as familiar with AMD's and the naming and performance and likewise on the Mobo's. Initially I was looking at putting a system together with a 3.0ghz intel and an SLI mobo and PSU. To get to the same processing speed as this in an AMD, what CPU would you recommend? What MOBO would be a good one? Also for L2 Cache I was looking at the 1MB x 2 with a 800mhz FSB. What would be the AMD equivalent? Is Dual Core worth the money? Any help and recommendations are appreciated. Later

03-01-2006, 07:14 PM	#2 (permalink) Top
Addis The King Join Date: Jan 2004 Age: 18 Male Posts: 5,255 Times Helpful: 403 My Mood: Drunk Status: Offline My Computer	Depends on what you want to spend really. You're right in assuming that AMD are better for gaming. Not only that, the newer Venice and San Diego cores are superior in many other areas not just gaming. Dual core at the moment is expensive, so for general usage and heavy gaming I'd recommend an Athlon 64 3500 venice, or if you want more performance a San Diego 3800. Cache isn't really an issue, the model numbers don't show clockspeed, they show overall performance relative to Intel and other Athlon 64s and take cache into account. But an AMD equivelent of Intel will usually outperform it. AMDs will also have a lower power consumption and thus be easier to cool. __________________ Never trust a program you don't have the source code for. My website \| Powerful Desktop Linux \| Linux for human beings \| Linux for power users \| Linux for ricers

03-01-2006, 10:04 PM	#4 (permalink) Top
Addis The King Join Date: Jan 2004 Age: 18 Male Posts: 5,255 Times Helpful: 403 My Mood: Drunk Status: Offline My Computer	I believe the A64s use a special AMD tech called Hypertransport, which allows very fast communications between the CPU and northbridge. As far as I know, the 3500 venice uses a 1GHz FSB, and uses a 2x multiplier to make an effective 2GHz FSB. Again I'm not all to sure on the multiplier part. Cache isn't really an issue, whats important is the model number which is used to show overall performance. Cache on most A64s is either 512k or 1MB depending on the model. __________________ Never trust a program you don't have the source code for. My website \| Powerful Desktop Linux \| Linux for human beings \| Linux for power users \| Linux for ricers

03-01-2006, 10:17 PM	#6 (permalink) Top
Anti-Trend Nonconformist Geek Join Date: Oct 2003 Age: 27 Male Posts: 4,882 Times Helpful: 538 Status: Offline My Computer	Look at Abit, Asus and DFI for good Socket 939 motherboards. I use mainly VIA chipsets, but I have heard very good things about the NF4. __________________ See My Desktop \| Try Linux \| Install Linux \| Visit My Server \| Support Hardware Forums \| Easily rip DVDs in Linux \| Remember Everything

04-01-2006, 02:31 AM	#8 (permalink) Top
Big B HWF Godfather Join Date: Dec 2001 Age: 28 Male Posts: 9,640 Times Helpful: 585 My Mood: Devilish Status: Offline My Computer	Right now, AMD-based systems don't use DDR2, but in the future, they will, simply because DDR2 can scale to speeds DDR can't. Motherboards: Asus A8N-SLI series --mature motherboard, oldest SLI board series. MSI K8N *4 SLI --second most mature SLI motherboard behind Asus DFI LanParty NF4 SLI-D/SLI-DR (DR has an additional 4 SATA ports for a total of 8)--Overclockers dream boards with tons of tweaks, I run an Ultra-D myself, and am rather pleased with it. Gigabyte nForce 4 SLI---Probably the cheapest option out there, as some of these board are hovering just over $100, which is pretty cheap for a decent SLI board. __________________ Hardware Forums\|HWF Rules\|My DVD's\|PSU FAQ\|HWF Folding Team\|2CPU

03-01-2006, 09:57 PM	#3 (permalink) Top
JP4LSU Geek Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 61 Status: Offline	Thanks Addis, this is my first build and have somewhat kept up with technology via websites etc. It seems I've always gravitated to Intel but the 600's seem to run very hot and it seems that the heat sink and fan should be upgraded. Now after trolling around forums and reading reviews I am prolly getting the AMD. I will check out the Venice and will prolly stay away from dual core. I would rather spend money on a VidCard or RAM. I have a lot on my wishlist at Newegg and am getting ready to pull the trigger. What about a Mobo? What are some good boards and brands for an AMD with SLI capability and DDR2 RAM? Also, do I need to pay attention to L2 Cache? Is it really that big of a deal on AMD and what about the FSB speeds? Do they have a 800mhz FSB?

03-01-2006, 10:12 PM	#5 (permalink) Top
JP4LSU Geek Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 61 Status: Offline	Excellent. Thanks Addis for the info. I will hit up Newegg tonight and scope out the AMD's and check out some MOBO's. What brands have had solid performance and quality for AMD? I've heard ASUS thrown around a lot and MSI. Thanks for the help.

04-01-2006, 01:08 AM	#7 (permalink) Top
KenshinX Big Geek Join Date: Jul 2005 Age: 18 Male Posts: 241 Times Helpful: 13 My Mood: Happy Status: Offline My Computer	I noticed you asked about DDR 2 AMD boards dont suppport DDR 2 ram, but do have dual channel support. Either way AMD processors still have a pretty big lead over intel in performance.

04-01-2006, 01:57 PM	#9 (permalink) Top
JP4LSU Geek Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 61 Status: Offline	Wow, I didn't know AMD mobo's didn't support DDR2. I wonder why they haven't done this yet. Is there word that they will have a DDR2 board soon? Well you can tell I haven't researched AMD mobo's yet considering I didn't know that jewel of info. I was going to read up on them last night but the Orange Bowl ended up being a good game and I got sucked in to it. Well DDR is fine, the RAM is cheaper . Another question though. I've never OC'd and I really don't plan on it. Will a stock AMD with DDR still perform with a similar Intel with DDR2 667mhz? What is your opinion?

04-01-2006, 02:34 PM	#10 (permalink) Top
Addis The King Join Date: Jan 2004 Age: 18 Male Posts: 5,255 Times Helpful: 403 My Mood: Drunk Status: Offline My Computer	DDR2 AMD mobos isn't the problem, the fact is that AMD doesn't see the reason at the moment to switch to DDR2. They are going to, but the higher latencies and higher costs wasn't worth the higher clock speeds. Probably did the right thing actually. DDR2 wouldn't work because AMD CPUs still don't support it, thats the reason. So the motherboards aren't the barrier here. The new AM2 socket CPUs will support DDR2 though, but I think its still some months before they release. To your question on oc, trust us that venice/san diego A64 will obliterate the "equivelent" P4 in gaming and most other applications too. DDR2 doesn't give intel that much of an advantage, as DDR2 also has higher latencies which tend to hurt AMD systems more. __________________ Never trust a program you don't have the source code for. My website \| Powerful Desktop Linux \| Linux for human beings \| Linux for power users \| Linux for ricers

04-01-2006, 08:30 PM	#11 (permalink) Top
harakim Big Geek Join Date: Dec 2005 Gender: Posts: 122 Status: Offline	AMD is great at gaming, but Intel prescotts are still better for lots of media stuff, despite what people say. If you are using photoshop for fun, it's probably not a big deal. If you were creating an entire magazine spread, you might care more. Also, Adobe is optimized for p4s, so they will obviously perform better as a result. If you are going to be gaming, just get an AMD. Hates AMD

04-01-2006, 10:04 PM	#12 (permalink) Top
Exfoliate Captain Dial-up Join Date: Jan 2005 Age: 19 Male Posts: 4,258 Times Helpful: 223 Status: Offline My Computer	If Photoshope is a big deal go dual-core like the 3800+ Manchester and get a 2gigs or value ram, you'll really have it there. Intel is good in the video editing area particularly but the gap is really closing fast. Why do you hate AMD? __________________

05-01-2006, 02:47 AM	#13 (permalink) Top
harakim Big Geek Join Date: Dec 2005 Gender: Posts: 122 Status: Offline	I don't like how they do business. Bait and switch, lying, those just aren't my style. Not to mention they somehow convinced everyone that a 4400+ means comparable to a 4,4ghz processor of intel... I just don't like their way of business.

05-01-2006, 03:50 AM	#14 (permalink) Top
ninja fetus I'm a thugged out gangsta Join Date: Mar 2004 Age: 18 Male Posts: 3,525 Times Helpful: 70 Status: Offline My Computer	if not comparable it surpasses the 4.4ghz intel in nearly every single synthetic benchmark. they may not be real actual results but they are close

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