CPU & mobo question

urb1972 · 05-09-2005, 08:27 PM

1) Do you have to have gel stuff (whatever it is) between the cpu and the heat sink over it, or is it just a good idea to.

2) Same question, but motherboards and paper washers.

I'm serious...such a newbie

pelvis_3 · 05-09-2005, 11:11 PM

You NEED to have the thermal interface between them unless you want to fry your CPU!
You think that sounds newbie > what are paper washers?

bobbyk · 06-09-2005, 12:21 AM

The "paper washers" are those red/brown colored washers that are used instead of metal ones -- to prevent grounding the screws and mounts. URB1972: You can use those things, but you must use at least three grounding points in your mobo by way of the "pan-head" screws -- the ones that look like they have built-in washers. The most important grounding points are those near the PSU/Mobo Connector, the ground point nearest your Video Card, and the one nearest your PCI slots. The rule is: Use grounded mounting holes whenever possible. This protects discreet components from static discharges and electrical noise.

Big B · 06-09-2005, 01:06 AM

You must have some sort of thermal pad or paste--paste > pad--unless you like the smell of burning electronics and/or instability.

As for applying thermal paste, you ONLY apply a thin coat to the die or heat spreader. Globbing it on will act as an insulator, creating the opposite effect you're looking for.

urb1972 · 06-09-2005, 03:40 PM

If residue of old paste is still present on the heatsink will that do any good (obviously not as good as fresh application) but sufficient to prevent meltdown? I ask because the engineer I PAID to come out took it off, took processor out, then put it all back, with no reapplication of gel (he didn't have any) other than the dried on 'goo' that was still in place. In fact its this PC that is running it like that.

Built-in washers? Not sure I understand. Will the paper washers not suffice. Pan head? AAAAGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

sabashuali · 06-09-2005, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbyk

The "paper washers" are those red/brown colored washers that are used instead of metal ones -- to prevent grounding the screws and mounts. URB1972: You can use those things, but you must use at least three grounding points in your mobo by way of the "pan-head" screws -- the ones that look like they have built-in washers. The most important grounding points are those near the PSU/Mobo Connector, the ground point nearest your Video Card, and the one nearest your PCI slots. The rule is: Use grounded mounting holes whenever possible. This protects discreet components from static discharges and electrical noise.

Wow wee... this is news to me

I thought these washers were to protect the mobo from damage when tightning the screws to the mounts

Now I will have to remove them....

why do they supply you with them when you buy the mobo? Oh well, the new Freezer commeth so I will remove them then. So, are you saying that as a rule these should not be used? Please shed some more light on the subject...

Many thanks for the lesson!

bobbyk · 07-09-2005, 05:26 AM

As I have stated, the rule is to use the grounding points on the board whenever possible. The paper washers are supplied to screw down the mobo at points where no grounding is necessary or to be avoided. The pan heads look like inverted pans (at least that's what their called). They have extended heads that act like washers when used in grounding a circuit using ground "slugs." The mounts that you screw them into. In the course of building CPU's you will come across a mobo that will not boot inside a casing -- this means a a signal is being grounded somehwere when you mounted it. You can then use the paper washers to insulate whichever mounting hole and slug from ground. That's why they are included. By the way, system instabilities are sometimes caused by lack of grounding, so use the grounding points wherever you safely can.

sabashuali · 07-09-2005, 06:49 AM

Thanks bob!

I will follow your advice and remove the washers from the locations you have stated.

Funny how you get to know stuff.....
How did you find this out, just out of interest?

Keep things cool!

bobbyk · 07-09-2005, 08:51 AM

One of my businesses was the assembly of personal computers per customer's requirements. I got some advice from my supplier on some builiding techniques. I started with 286's. Overclocked 386 DX's way back when ... I'm an old man. Let's just say I learned it from the school of hard knocks. And you're welcome.

urb1972 · 07-09-2005, 06:51 PM

I didn't use the washers in the end.

But I think I got the pan-head screws in the right places. I hope.

Whereas all my mates have performed countless HD swaps, CD writers, etc, they have it easy next to messing with a mobo. They're nasty. You get lulled into a false confidence with lego brick style easyness with some connectors, then major ones like power have the tiniest pins.

Oh well.

But relating to a thread I have in another topic, how would a faulty motherboard 'seem'? If it's anything relevant, I'm getting lousy scores on 3D benchmarking, yet use this mobo, 1gig memory (detected by Belarc but with compatability issues) and have a GEFORCE FX5200 which I know is nothing to write home about but...

bobbyk · 08-09-2005, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urb1972

But relating to a thread I have in another topic, how would a faulty motherboard 'seem'? If it's anything relevant, I'm getting lousy scores on 3D benchmarking, yet use this mobo, 1gig memory (detected by Belarc but with compatability issues) and have a GEFORCE FX5200 which I know is nothing to write home about but...

Lousy Benchmark scores do not relate to defective motherboards, or even graphics cards. As long as you finish the benchmark without a hitch, your system is fine. As for the low scores, well, if that's what it says, that's what it is. And don't get sucked into these Benchmarking trips. The important point is that your PC is performing well for the applications you intended it for. If a gaming benchmark says your system is slow, why would you care if you're not a gamer? On the other hand, if you are a gamer, and the games you play demand a better system, then you need to upgrade. The right tool for the job, that's all.

sabashuali · 08-09-2005, 04:34 PM

Quote:

And don't get sucked into these Benchmarking trips. The important point is that your PC is performing well for the applications you intended it for.

You beat me to it! This is so true! Well done for making the point!
So obvious,

yet so easily overlooked!

05-09-2005, 08:27 PM	#1 (permalink) Top
urb1972 Geek Join Date: Aug 2005 Age: 36 Male Posts: 83 Status: Offline My Computer	CPU & mobo question 1) Do you have to have gel stuff (whatever it is) between the cpu and the heat sink over it, or is it just a good idea to. 2) Same question, but motherboards and paper washers. I'm serious...such a newbie

05-09-2005, 11:11 PM	#2 (permalink) Top
pelvis_3 HWF Member For Life Join Date: Jul 2005 Age: 22 Male Posts: 2,339 Times Helpful: 265 My Mood: Happy Status: Offline My Computer	You NEED to have the thermal interface between them unless you want to fry your CPU! You think that sounds newbie > what are paper washers? __________________ Adopt an unanswered thread. \| Who's Online \| vB Code Some people are alive only because it’s illegal to kill them! Support bacteria, it's the only culture some people have!

06-09-2005, 01:06 AM	#4 (permalink) Top
Big B HWF Godfather Join Date: Dec 2001 Age: 28 Male Posts: 9,673 Times Helpful: 585 My Mood: Devilish Status: Offline My Computer	You must have some sort of thermal pad or paste--paste > pad--unless you like the smell of burning electronics and/or instability. As for applying thermal paste, you ONLY apply a thin coat to the die or heat spreader. Globbing it on will act as an insulator, creating the opposite effect you're looking for. __________________ Hardware Forums\|HWF Rules\|My DVD's\|PSU FAQ\|HWF Folding Team

07-09-2005, 05:26 AM	#7 (permalink) Top
bobbyk Big Geek Join Date: Mar 2005 Age: 48 Male Posts: 102 Times Helpful: 12 Status: Offline My Computer	As I have stated, the rule is to use the grounding points on the board whenever possible. The paper washers are supplied to screw down the mobo at points where no grounding is necessary or to be avoided. The pan heads look like inverted pans (at least that's what their called). They have extended heads that act like washers when used in grounding a circuit using ground "slugs." The mounts that you screw them into. In the course of building CPU's you will come across a mobo that will not boot inside a casing -- this means a a signal is being grounded somehwere when you mounted it. You can then use the paper washers to insulate whichever mounting hole and slug from ground. That's why they are included. By the way, system instabilities are sometimes caused by lack of grounding, so use the grounding points wherever you safely can. Last edited by bobbyk; 07-09-2005 at 05:36 AM.

07-09-2005, 06:49 AM	#8 (permalink) Top
sabashuali Ani Ma'amin Join Date: May 2005 Age: 41 Male Posts: 1,498 Times Helpful: 72 My Mood: Grumpy Status: Offline My Computer	Thanks bob! I will follow your advice and remove the washers from the locations you have stated. Funny how you get to know stuff..... How did you find this out, just out of interest? Keep things cool! __________________ This is not a PC friendly user!!! "...when you find someone you really love, all the rest is just... other stuff." - *Leanne Anika Battersby* Help with digital video? Help My Mini City to grow Hit or Miss

06-09-2005, 12:21 AM	#3 (permalink) Top
bobbyk Big Geek Join Date: Mar 2005 Age: 48 Male Posts: 102 Times Helpful: 12 Status: Offline My Computer	The "paper washers" are those red/brown colored washers that are used instead of metal ones -- to prevent grounding the screws and mounts. URB1972: You can use those things, but you must use at least three grounding points in your mobo by way of the "pan-head" screws -- the ones that look like they have built-in washers. The most important grounding points are those near the PSU/Mobo Connector, the ground point nearest your Video Card, and the one nearest your PCI slots. The rule is: Use grounded mounting holes whenever possible. This protects discreet components from static discharges and electrical noise.

06-09-2005, 03:40 PM	#5 (permalink) Top
urb1972 Geek Join Date: Aug 2005 Age: 36 Male Posts: 83 Status: Offline My Computer	If residue of old paste is still present on the heatsink will that do any good (obviously not as good as fresh application) but sufficient to prevent meltdown? I ask because the engineer I PAID to come out took it off, took processor out, then put it all back, with no reapplication of gel (he didn't have any) other than the dried on 'goo' that was still in place. In fact its this PC that is running it like that. Built-in washers? Not sure I understand. Will the paper washers not suffice. Pan head? AAAAGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

07-09-2005, 08:51 AM	#9 (permalink) Top
bobbyk Big Geek Join Date: Mar 2005 Age: 48 Male Posts: 102 Times Helpful: 12 Status: Offline My Computer	One of my businesses was the assembly of personal computers per customer's requirements. I got some advice from my supplier on some builiding techniques. I started with 286's. Overclocked 386 DX's way back when ... I'm an old man. Let's just say I learned it from the school of hard knocks. And you're welcome.

07-09-2005, 06:51 PM	#10 (permalink) Top
urb1972 Geek Join Date: Aug 2005 Age: 36 Male Posts: 83 Status: Offline My Computer	I didn't use the washers in the end. But I think I got the pan-head screws in the right places. I hope. Whereas all my mates have performed countless HD swaps, CD writers, etc, they have it easy next to messing with a mobo. They're nasty. You get lulled into a false confidence with lego brick style easyness with some connectors, then major ones like power have the tiniest pins. Oh well. But relating to a thread I have in another topic, how would a faulty motherboard 'seem'? If it's anything relevant, I'm getting lousy scores on 3D benchmarking, yet use this mobo, 1gig memory (detected by Belarc but with compatability issues) and have a GEFORCE FX5200 which I know is nothing to write home about but...

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