Japanese > American?

ReStart · 29-10-2007, 03:31 PM

I seiously think people are exaggerating that "american cars are inferior", I have been reading and hearing about the quality of american cars getting really better over the past couple or more years, they just need to make the fuel efficiency better.

edijs · 31-10-2007, 07:37 AM

fuel efficiency's not the problem as from a technical point of view - the problem, IMO, is them wanting to have huge engines and automatic gear boxes. Those few envioronmentalists are no good if all of the country won't switch down from like 5 liter engines to at least 2 liter engines

and about the quality - well, I'd rather drive a american car than a japanese one.

Big B · 31-10-2007, 11:32 AM

The other thing in the equation: Unions. The UAW gives a bad name to Unions, and when I think of a Union worker in the auto industry, I think of someone who has a high school education making $18 per hour and tons of perks and doesn't have to bust their butt. Then, when they don't get something served to them on a silver platter they go on strike. They don't necessarily care about quality, and what you do get isn't the best.

Additionally, does American or Japanese mean made there or just who holds the reins? I have an American car...assembled in Mexico. Toyota and Honda have plants in the US, that do employ US workers. Those cars are ending up on car lots for sale. There, you are paid to work hard, not sit around and scratch yourself the hours you're there and not doing work.

Swansen · 02-11-2007, 02:57 AM

Well, it all really comes down to the engineering and market. A lot of the world doesn't really like what most automakers produce for American targets, and vice versa for America(generally) But as far as quality goes, its really down to the model. The Japaneses have an equal amount of crap vehicles as the Americans do. Americans like bigger softer riding vehicles that get up go in a straight line, most of the rest of the world like smaller cars that are quick and can handle. With all of the issues with oil, there has been a big surge to more imports because they are more economical.

yorkkev28 · 13-11-2007, 04:14 PM

With regard the Americans move to buy more economical imports, due to the price of oil. I don't know what American's are paying per litre but here in the U.K the price per litre works out at around $1.85.
Ive gone from a 2.0 litre performance car to a more economical 1.4 litre. If current trends in the oil market continue i'll be reduced to doing the big shop on a lawnmower to save costs.

Swansen · 15-11-2007, 03:07 AM

lol, a lawnmower, yeah, i want to get a diesel, real bad, or just do a diesel swap

Anyways, theres about 3.75 litres in a gallon, and gas is $3.00 to #3.50 per gallon (depending on grade and location) but yeah you guys still have it worse than us, but this is all getting extremely ridiculous. I really like driving, and i really like autos, but prices are only going to get higher and its getting to the point where i can't really constitute the cost of going anywhere for anything. Take long drives to see friends is like a huge decision. I dunno, some one needs to invent something better, and in the mean time, i need to move to a metropolitan area and walk and use mass transit.

la1 · 21-12-2007, 08:22 PM

I like the styling of American cars. I have a 2003 Chevy Impala. IMO it seems like it was designed by someone who likes cars, not coughed up by some CAD program by someone who's job it is to design cars. A lot of the engine and drivetrain I can use off of 5 years of cars, not just that model year. I admit GM has to make some changes real quick, like switching to OHC engines. I am also 6'5" and need the leg room, the Impala also has split bench seats which I really like and minimalchrome on the outside. The car is easy to work on. My next car will still be an American car.

Swansen · 21-12-2007, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by la1

I like the styling of American cars. I have a 2003 Chevy Impala. IMO it seems like it was designed by someone who likes cars, not coughed up by some CAD program by someone who's job it is to design cars. A lot of the engine and drivetrain I can use off of 5 years of cars, not just that model year. I admit GM has to make some changes real quick, like switching to OHC engines. I am also 6'5" and need the leg room, the Impala also has split bench seats which I really like and minimalchrome on the outside. The car is easy to work on. My next car will still be an American car.

thats crazy, from all that i have saw, most people from the UK hate American cars above all else. To be honest, GM engineers to a lot of really dumb stuff, but yeah, in general they are pretty easy to work on, but again, thats relative.

la1 · 24-12-2007, 01:22 PM

Quote:

thats crazy, from all that i have saw, most people from the UK hate American cars above all else. To be honest, GM engineers to a lot of really dumb stuff, but yeah, in general they are pretty easy to work on, but again, thats relative.

I am from the US, just selected the wrong time zone. LOL british cars, don't make me laugh

Addis · 24-12-2007, 03:12 PM

It's a shame that Ford now owns Aston Martin and other originally British manufacturers. I guess it doesn't really matter too much as long as the cars themselves remain British.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swansen

thats crazy, from all that i have saw, most people from the UK hate American cars above all else.

I would say that the stereotypical american muscle car isn't popular, but as I said before GM owns many manufacturers, and Vauxhall being one of them is popular in the UK.

The Japanese do make some very safe, high quality cars. A while ago statistics showed that they had better reliability than some of the high quality German cars like Audi/BMW.

Myself I like the German cars, and others which generally have an understated feel to them. Not that I can afford any of them, but a guy can dream.

Whether we like it or not, going for long but pointless drives won't be worth the price eventually. It's just the way things go, and IMO haivng more efficient cars being used less can only be a good thing.

zeus · 24-12-2007, 04:03 PM

There are a surprising amount of Chryslers on the roads in the uk but general but there are probably more classic american cars in peoples garages. To be honest american cars are big and if someone wants a big car they get a german one! There a few 4x4s which have "also sold in america" written all over them imo but again... ford 4x4, jeep etc or a bmw, mercedes, range rover..... I hate the things but id always buy the european one.
Why should people a few thousand miles away from each other have the same taste in cars. We generally have a different taste in everything else. Beer, clothes, music... why not cars too. I like Italian everything. Im going to sell my rock solid jap motorbike and get a ducati soon and get an alpha romeo sometime soon too. Both are stupidly unreliable but at least ill have my GM van (astravan) to fall back on

EDIT: got rid of the astravan for a vauxhall combo.

la1 · 24-12-2007, 07:33 PM

GM or a branch EMD makes locomotives, like the GP38. Here in the US GP and SD EMDs are everywhere. It is not unusual to see a 30 - 40 year old EMD.
I think what happened to the American car industry is, basically they got lazy.

I worked for Chevrolet in the mid 70s and we use to get new cars in that had obvious deffects. Also the Unions, which i think is a very useful tool for labor, can be bad too. The Union would say that 15 men were needed on the factory floor maybe when only 10 were needed. Then there was this attitude in the 70s that if you bought a lemon, lets say Ford. You went back to Ford, got the run around, got mad bought a Chrysler, maybe a few years latter bought a Chevy because yiou did not like Chrysler service. You know what, you were still buying a UAW product. Then the Imports entered the closed loop. The American car industry has been playing catch up since then. The Japanese car companies use to come over here and buy carbs , ignitions , pistons...etc and take them back in suit cases to reverse engineer them. The first Datsun and the president of Datsun was to drive across the us, the car broke down so much he hadto take a Cadillacthe rest of the way. What has happened since then is while our execs were having martini lunches the imports were re investing profits into R/D , and the factories. I had 2 Toyotas, Still like American made cars hopefully the American car industry will survive.

Swansen · 31-12-2007, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by la1

I am from the US, just selected the wrong time zone. LOL british cars, don't make me laugh

dude, in the new envoys, the head and the block are one piece, YOU CAN'T REBUILD THE ENGINE and its very awkward to get around and stupid, GM does a lot of really dumb things, most American cars are built so at one point they will break, so GM gets more money. Lastly, we had an engineer come in and i honestly don't remember what the repair was because i wasn't the one to fix it. (thank god) Anyways, it was on a 2003 pickup with the 5.3 and we got to talked to him, and we were like, why don't you just fix it, he said, because i made it, i know how much of a b**ch it is to fix. Yep, took like three hours and some change to replace one part. On that i know it was something on the serpentine system. (waterpump, alternator, power steering pump, ac compressor, ect)

la1 · 02-01-2008, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Vauxhall being one of them is popular in the UK

Yes, there is also Holden, if not in the UK , I know for sure in Australia.

Quote:

in the new envoys, the head and the block are one piece

I seriosly doubt that. I will check into that though to make sure. How would they get the valves into the head or cut the valve seats ? So if you stripped the stud for the for a rocker arm and a heli-coil did not turn out good or you dropped s nut into an open spark plug hole you would have to get a whole new engine? yea right. I think you might have misunderstood, b/c both the block and heads are cast iron.
GM Vortec engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia check out the link.... at least your post made me laugh. If you are a mechanic, tell me where you work so I will never go there.

Quote:

something on the serpentine system. (waterpump, alternator, power steering pump, ac compressor, ect)

sounds more like the guy was just covering for NOT REALLY being an engineer and didn't know what the F**k he was actually talking about or just extremely lazy. Out of what you listed the AC compressor would probably take the longest, you have to discharge the AC system , do your repairs , evacuate the system so there is a perfect vacuum , ad tetraflouromethane and pag lube.... yeah I guess that is a lot of work, I guess there are always jobs at Wall Mart selling popcorn.

Swansen · 02-01-2008, 09:18 PM

i should have looked that up before i posted, but i was wrong. An older mechanic had just talked about it, and i was skeptical at the time, but i figured he knew better, on side note, thats wikipedia, not the best of sources. As far as the chevy 5.3 goes, like i was saying, i don't know, i didn't work on it, i was just talking to the guy, and yes, he was an engineer. However, on the new envoys, the front dif goes through the oil pan, so thats a good time, but GM makes their vehicles for now, not down the road. Everything they engineer is great for the time being, but as soon as you have to fix something, its not so great anymore. On a final note, what are you talking about, you live in the UK, why the crap would you come to MI to get a repair, thats some good logic, and you need some anger management.

29-10-2007, 03:31 PM	#1 (permalink) Top
ReStart Geek Trainee Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2 Status: Offline	Japanese > American? I seiously think people are exaggerating that "american cars are inferior", I have been reading and hearing about the quality of american cars getting really better over the past couple or more years, they just need to make the fuel efficiency better.

31-10-2007, 07:37 AM	#2 (permalink) Top
edijs Programmer Join Date: Sep 2006 Age: 22 Male Posts: 523 Times Helpful: 16 My Mood: Busy Status: Offline My Computer	fuel efficiency's not the problem as from a technical point of view - the problem, IMO, is them wanting to have huge engines and automatic gear boxes. Those few envioronmentalists are no good if all of the country won't switch down from like 5 liter engines to at least 2 liter engines and about the quality - well, I'd rather drive a american car than a japanese one. __________________ Come to Latvia \| Crossfade, Element Eighty, Seether \| The Best Series Ever \| Love the classics: PlayStationOne \| Works well for me \| Opera rocks \| My Ride

31-10-2007, 11:32 AM	#3 (permalink) Top
Big B HWF Godfather Join Date: Dec 2001 Age: 28 Male Posts: 9,640 Times Helpful: 585 My Mood: Devilish Status: Offline My Computer	The other thing in the equation: Unions. The UAW gives a bad name to Unions, and when I think of a Union worker in the auto industry, I think of someone who has a high school education making $18 per hour and tons of perks and doesn't have to bust their butt. Then, when they don't get something served to them on a silver platter they go on strike. They don't necessarily care about quality, and what you do get isn't the best. Additionally, does American or Japanese mean made there or just who holds the reins? I have an American car...assembled in Mexico. Toyota and Honda have plants in the US, that do employ US workers. Those cars are ending up on car lots for sale. There, you are paid to work hard, not sit around and scratch yourself the hours you're there and not doing work. __________________ Hardware Forums\|HWF Rules\|My DVD's\|PSU FAQ\|HWF Folding Team\|2CPU

13-11-2007, 04:14 PM	#5 (permalink) Top
yorkkev28 HWF Minion Join Date: Aug 2006 Age: 30 Male Posts: 414 Times Helpful: 9 My Mood: Cheerful Status: Offline My Computer	With regard the Americans move to buy more economical imports, due to the price of oil. I don't know what American's are paying per litre but here in the U.K the price per litre works out at around $1.85. Ive gone from a 2.0 litre performance car to a more economical 1.4 litre. If current trends in the oil market continue i'll be reduced to doing the big shop on a lawnmower to save costs. __________________ Your Porn Star Name Is... Meat Grinder

24-12-2007, 04:03 PM	#11 (permalink) Top
zeus out of date Join Date: May 2003 Age: 27 Male Posts: 1,654 Times Helpful: 105 My Mood: Twisted Status: Offline My Computer	There are a surprising amount of Chryslers on the roads in the uk but general but there are probably more classic american cars in peoples garages. To be honest american cars are big and if someone wants a big car they get a german one! There a few 4x4s which have "also sold in america" written all over them imo but again... ford 4x4, jeep etc or a bmw, mercedes, range rover..... I hate the things but id always buy the european one. Why should people a few thousand miles away from each other have the same taste in cars. We generally have a different taste in everything else. Beer, clothes, music... why not cars too. I like Italian everything. Im going to sell my rock solid jap motorbike and get a ducati soon and get an alpha romeo sometime soon too. Both are stupidly unreliable but at least ill have my GM van (astravan) to fall back on EDIT: got rid of the astravan for a vauxhall combo. Last edited by zeus; 03-02-2008 at 12:12 PM.

21-12-2007, 08:22 PM	#7 (permalink) Top
la1 Geek Trainee Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 30 Times Helpful: 1 Status: Offline	I like the styling of American cars. I have a 2003 Chevy Impala. IMO it seems like it was designed by someone who likes cars, not coughed up by some CAD program by someone who's job it is to design cars. A lot of the engine and drivetrain I can use off of 5 years of cars, not just that model year. I admit GM has to make some changes real quick, like switching to OHC engines. I am also 6'5" and need the leg room, the Impala also has split bench seats which I really like and minimalchrome on the outside. The car is easy to work on. My next car will still be an American car.

24-12-2007, 07:33 PM	#12 (permalink) Top
la1 Geek Trainee Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 30 Times Helpful: 1 Status: Offline	GM or a branch EMD makes locomotives, like the GP38. Here in the US GP and SD EMDs are everywhere. It is not unusual to see a 30 - 40 year old EMD. I think what happened to the American car industry is, basically they got lazy. I worked for Chevrolet in the mid 70s and we use to get new cars in that had obvious deffects. Also the Unions, which i think is a very useful tool for labor, can be bad too. The Union would say that 15 men were needed on the factory floor maybe when only 10 were needed. Then there was this attitude in the 70s that if you bought a lemon, lets say Ford. You went back to Ford, got the run around, got mad bought a Chrysler, maybe a few years latter bought a Chevy because yiou did not like Chrysler service. You know what, you were still buying a UAW product. Then the Imports entered the closed loop. The American car industry has been playing catch up since then. The Japanese car companies use to come over here and buy carbs , ignitions , pistons...etc and take them back in suit cases to reverse engineer them. The first Datsun and the president of Datsun was to drive across the us, the car broke down so much he hadto take a Cadillacthe rest of the way. What has happened since then is while our execs were having martini lunches the imports were re investing profits into R/D , and the factories. I had 2 Toyotas, Still like American made cars hopefully the American car industry will survive.

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