New all-round rig

Aankhen · 07-11-2006, 08:46 AM

Hi everyone,

I'm building a new PC myself for the first time, which will need to handle pretty much everything: games, work (Web development), media (watching as well as transcoding)... and of course, the strenuous tasks of word processing and surfing the 'Net.

The only problem is, as usual, the financial aspect. I need to economise as much as possible while building the rig, although I plan to upgrade aggressively as my finances permit.

With these things in mind, I'd appreciate any advice about the parts I'm listing below, as well as help filling in the blanks!

Tentatively decided:
Foxconn P9657AA motherboard
Core 2 Duo E6400
Sapphire Radeon X1950 Pro
2 x Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320 GB
Lite-On SHM-165H6S DVD drive
Logitech Media Keyboard Elite Black
Logitech G5 mouse
Logitech Z-2300 speakers

Undecided:
Case (nothing fancy, just functional and with enough space)
Power supply
Display (cheap 17" LCD)
Memory (2 GB DDR2, but what brand and speed?)

Thanks in advance, and please forgive the vagueness.

Big B · 07-11-2006, 12:01 PM

Well, what kind of budget are you looking at? $1000? $1500?

What you might consider doing to save money is buy 1GB now and grab another 1GB later on.

Power supplies:
Anything around 500W or better from the following companies will do the job:
Antec, Enermax, OCZ, Tagan, Silverstone, Hiper, Seasonic, FSP/Fortron/Sparkle, TTGI, and if you really have money to blow, PC Power & Cooling.

Aankhen · 07-11-2006, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big B

Well, what kind of budget are you looking at? $1000? $1500?

It's a little hard to say, since I have to sort of negotiate the budget.

Ideally, though, I'd like to fit it into $1200 (yes, I know that seems unlikely).

Quote:

What you might consider doing to save money is buy 1GB now and grab another 1GB later on.

Well, I don't really want to sacrifice my 2 GB (I already had to back down from 4 GB), but I suppose that's a good idea if I have no choice...

Quote:

Power supplies:
Anything around 500W or better from the following companies will do the job:

500W?

I guess I'm stuck in the past... I was thinking of a 300-400W power supply.

Thanks for all the advice!

06ryan06 · 07-11-2006, 11:39 PM

i have 256mb and geting a upgrade to 512.512 should do all games fine but 1gb will ensure smooth gameplay.you seem to have enough hard drive space i only have 20 gb and it seems to be fine.so 320 will give u far more then enough.what ghz ur processor and how much cache u got? id say 2.8mhz and a good 4mb cache,so you get a smooth ride of data bien processed and no backloggin so no slow down of the game.

Karanislove · 07-11-2006, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryan

i have 256mb and geting a upgrade to 512.512 should do all games

Which games are u talking about? Can u play Oblivion?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryan

what ghz ur processor and how much cache u got? id say 2.8mhz and a good 4mb cache

Wat about Graphics Card? Which plays main role in playing games.

06ryan06 · 08-11-2006, 12:05 AM

im playing fm and fifa,im not up to date with graphic cards and video cards so jst mention the speeds and memory lol,4mb cache should keep the game flowing and not slowing up.most reconmendations are 256mb tho right?so 512 should be enough

Karanislove · 08-11-2006, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryan

most reconmendations are 256mb tho right?so 512 should be enough

If you go to Microsofts website, they says that you can run Winxp on 64MB RAM but in reality that will be rediculous. Even 256MB of RAM is not good enought to run XP.... 1 GB of RAM to run normal graphics game but to run high end games like Oblivion you need 2GB of RAM with good graphics card... Also for you, try playing games like FEAR or QUAKE 4......

Aankhen · 08-11-2006, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 06ryan06

i have 256mb and geting a upgrade to 512.512 should do all games fine but 1gb will ensure smooth gameplay.

Er... are we discussing graphics card memory or system memory? The graphics card I chose has 256 MB, which is adequate for my current needs.

Quote:

you seem to have enough hard drive space i only have 20 gb and it seems to be fine.so 320 will give u far more then enough.

I wish that were true, but I have a knack for filling up hard disks. Back in India I had 320 GB (120 + 200) in my computer plus two 300 GB externals and all of it was filled to the brim... now I'm down to 120 GB on my notebook and a single 300 GB drive (the other one died), so you can imagine my plight!

Quote:

what ghz ur processor and how much cache u got? id say 2.8mhz and a good 4mb cache,so you get a smooth ride of data bien processed and no backloggin so no slow down of the game.

The Core 2 Duo E6400 is dual-core, with each core running at 2.13 GHz. I'm not really worried about that, since from what I've read it's an excellent processor at a reasonable price.

Big B · 08-11-2006, 04:41 AM

These days, while 512MB is useable, if your gaming includes anything recent, it won't cut it, and 1GB is the minimum you want if you enjoy smooth play. Half-Life 2 and other Source engine games may be the exception, but I have a hard time believing that 512MB is sufficient for something like FEAR or Prey.

$1200, for what you want if you build a box within that budget, the external affairs aren't going to come with it. To be honest, given some of the requirements you have, a more realistic goal is $1500 for the box. For everything, assuming on the Canadian dollar here, you should be able to do this under $2000 CAN.

*pausing for sticker shock*

Let me throw up a suggested list to cover the bases. I'm using TigerDirect Canada as a reference, so prices may differ. I didn't have a Radeon X1950 Pro that I could link to here, so I put a GeForce 7900GS in as a placeholder for the illustration. It's the X1950 Pro's competition and in the same price range. I still would go with the X1950 unless you'll largely play Doom 3, Quake 4 and/or Prey.

Motherboard: MSI P965 Neo $126.99
CPU: Core 2 Duo E6300 $242.00 (the E6400 is $272.00, but it's something to weigh)
RAM: Mushkin PC2-5400 2GB kit $304.00
Video Card: eVGA GeForce 7900GS $214 (with rebate)
Hard Drive: Seagate 320GB $139.99 (x2 = $279.98)
Optical Drive: Pioneer DVR-111BK 16x DVDRW $54.99
Power Supply: Enermax EG565P-VE 535W $114.99
Case: CoolerMaster Centurion 5 $63.99

E6300 box total: $1402.92
E6400 box total: $1432.92
Shipping and taxes not included

Now for the rest:
Keyboard: Logitech Media Keyboard $19.99 (I don't know if this is what you're looking at or not)
Mouse: Logitech G5 $59.99
Speakers: Logitech Z-2300 $139.99
Monitor: Samsung SyncMaster 740N 17" LCD $229.99

Package totals:
E6300: $1852.88
E6400: $1882.88
Tax and shipping extra

Here's a few things to customize it to your tastes:
Go into a store and look at any display you're considering for purchase. You're going to be sitting in front of this thing a lot, so you owe it to yourself to find a display that you like. The lower the response rate, the better, although don't go by specs alone. I tossed in the Samsung, as I've been impressed by their displays. IMO, their displays are on par with Sony, but without the ass-rape pricing.

Same thing with the speakers: listen to them. I know a lot of people like them, but I've been very pleased with Creative speakers, especially for how cheap they were to pick up new. Reviews are great, but not everyone likes the same thing.

I suggested the Pioneer DVD Burner as the DVR109 and 111 I've put in 2 of my systems have worked great without a hiccup, so I can't shut up about them.

RAM: The Mushkin seemd to be a decent price for 2GB. A second suggestion to think about would be some Crucial stuff. Those were a little more expensive, so I didn't put those in. PC4200 is the lowest you want to go, but you may not save a whole lot of money between PC4200 and PC5400/5300. PC5400 and 5300 run at the same speeds, but there's a little bit of a war going on about what to call it.

Big B · 08-11-2006, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 06ryan06

im playing fm and fifa,im not up to date with graphic cards and video cards so jst mention the speeds and memory lol,4mb cache should keep the game flowing and not slowing up.most reconmendations are 256mb tho right?so 512 should be enough

For video cards, 256MB is fine, but that's not the biggest factor. The graphics chip on the card is. There's a lot of budget GPU cards that have 256MB, even 512MB, like a Radeon X1300, but I'd still take the X1950Pro 256MB over that. Even my GeForce 6600GT is better, despite having only 128MB. A GPU derives is processing power from the number of pipelines. A low-end GPU may have a higher clock speed, but a high-end card with more pipelines is going to beat the snot out of the low-end card.

Let's say you have a 2 lane highway with a 100mph speed limit and another that's 4 lane, but has a 75mph speed limit. Which is more likely to get more traffic through in a shorter period of time? The 4 lane, yet it runs 25mph slower than the 2 lane. See my point.

Big B · 08-11-2006, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 06ryan06

i have 256mb and geting a upgrade to 512.512 should do all games fine but 1gb will ensure smooth gameplay.you seem to have enough hard drive space i only have 20 gb and it seems to be fine.so 320 will give u far more then enough.what ghz ur processor and how much cache u got? id say 2.8mhz and a good 4mb cache,so you get a smooth ride of data bien processed and no backloggin so no slow down of the game.

512MB used to be fine, but anymore, if you're intent on playing FEAR or Quake 4, 1GB is really where you want to start off with. There is a massive difference as I've personally found out. Going from 512MB to 1GB has been one of the best upgrades I've ever done.

Today's games take up 4-5GB without any saves. Additionally, he'll be doing other things that require large drive space, so 320GB isn't a bad thing.
A CPU's speed doesn't mean a damn thing. A Core 2 Duo E6400 runs at 2.13GHz, but it will beat a 3.8GHz P4, and it's has nothing to do with the dual-core nature. The Core 2's are much more efficient than the Pentium 4's were, so more data is done each clock cycle. Pentium 4 and the NetBurst architecture were designed to scale high speeds, and that was achieved. The downside to this was that the work per clock was not as good as AMD had in the Athlon XP and Athlon64. This wasn't by a small percentage, as AMD would have a CPU running at 60% of the speed of a Pentium 4, go toe-to-toe and still win.

Around 2000, your information would be correct, but things have drastically changed since then. Read up on Anandtech or the Tech Report for some good coverage (yeah, there's a lot.)

Aankhen · 08-11-2006, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big B

Let me throw up a suggested list to cover the bases. I'm using TigerDirect Canada as a reference, so prices may differ. I didn't have a Radeon X1950 Pro that I could link to here, so I put a GeForce 7900GS in as a placeholder for the illustration. It's the X1950 Pro's competition and in the same price range. I still would go with the X1950 unless you'll largely play Doom 3, Quake 4 and/or Prey.

Thank you so much for that comprehensive list! I didn't realise prices differ so greatly between the US and Canada. It seems to be because all the low-priced stores are US-based and don't ship to Canada.

Maybe I could ask a friend of mine to send me the parts from the US; wouldn't that be cheaper, what with better deals and all?

Again, I really appreciate all the help you're giving me.

Rest assured, though, it's nowhere near the end.

I'm going to keep asking questions until my new computer's fully up and running... and probably after that too!

Big B · 08-11-2006, 12:03 PM

The Canadian dollar is noticably less than the US dollar. It's too bad Newegg doesn't ship there. I know they were considering it, but that may have been dropped. Right now, the Canadian dollar is worth about 88 Cents in the US.

There's also heavier online competition in the US, so I'm sure that has some effect on pricing over you Canadians.

TigerDirect.ca is the Canadian outlet for TigerDirect. NCIX.com would be another place to check prices out.

Shipping it over might not save you any money, as you may have to pay an import fee. I shipped something to Canada once in a trade, and I had to declare a few things. One of those kept it from getting tagged, but I don't remember what. I recall one of the reviewers at 2CPU saying it sucked having to drop $100 to pick up a package for review. I'm not an expert on import laws, so that would be something to factor in on your cost.

You could also buy a second hard drive later, which would cut some cash down. Right now, RAM prices have been going up thanks to the impending holiday season.

What you might do is buy the main box, sans the second hard drive and then pick up the rest of the affairs over time. You might be able to cash in on the post Christmas deals and whatnot.

Aankhen · 10-12-2006, 07:25 AM

Sorry about not responding for so long... I've been facing my own dilemmas and making compromises and sacrifices.

Here's what I've ordered:

Motherboard: Foxconn P9657AA
Memory: OCZ Dual Channel XTC 2048MB PC2-5400
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6400
Storage: 2 x Seagate 7200.10 320 GB
Optical Drive: Pioneer DVR-111DBK
Case: CoolerMaster Centurion 532
Power supply: Ultra X2 550W (bundle with the case)
Mouse: Logitech G5
Graphics card: HIS X1950 Pro IceQ3 Turbo
Keyboard: Logitech Media Keyboard Elite
Display: Sceptre X20WG (20.1", 1680x1050, 5ms)

All told, it came to about $50-100 more than the configuration suggested previously... in that, I got a 20.1" screen, the Core 2 Duo E6400, and the X1950 Pro, which was about $100 more than the GeForce 7900, before taxes. Oh yeah, the taxes were quite high... probably around $200-300 in total.

If you're paying attention, you may have noticed that I'm missing speakers. The Sceptre has builtin speakers, so I decided to save the money for now (perhaps I'll buy the speakers next month). I doubt they would be worse than my laptop speakers... even if they are, I just have to lump it, since I've already gone so far over budget.

So, this is the first system I'll be building. Any suggestions on what I should look out for? Also, could anyone tell me what tools I'd need? I've got a screwdriver, hammer, wrench, and pliers... anything else? Keep in mind, I'm completely new at this!

EDIT:
Almost forgot. For the curious, all the parts should be here by Friday, so I expect I'll try to get the system up and running over the weekend.

Willz · 10-12-2006, 12:19 PM

Hi.

I think that the 7900GS was actually better than an X1950Pro, you may of been better off buyign the E6300, as the only difference is clock speeds, and the whole range of core 2 duo's are really good overclockers.

An Anti-Statis Wrist band would be good especially since this is your first build, its better to be safe than sorry :p.

The power supply, i wouldent reccommend using it with such a good rig like that, especially since its bundled with a case, its not about total watts, its about the quality of the components used and the ratings of the 12v rails, i would highly reccommend purchasing a psu from a brand like tagen, hiper, antec, enermax, seasonic etc..., i dont belive that Ultra X will be good enough, and i wouldent reccommend using that computer untill you get a new psu.

Apart from that, your rig is going to be awsome, i wish i had a rig like that :p

07-11-2006, 08:46 AM	#1 (permalink) Top
Aankhen Geek Trainee Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 36 My Mood: Sleepy Status: Offline My Computer	Putting together a new PC (was: New all-round rig) Hi everyone, I'm building a new PC myself for the first time, which will need to handle pretty much everything: games, work (Web development), media (watching as well as transcoding)... and of course, the strenuous tasks of word processing and surfing the 'Net. The only problem is, as usual, the financial aspect. I need to economise as much as possible while building the rig, although I plan to upgrade aggressively as my finances permit. With these things in mind, I'd appreciate any advice about the parts I'm listing below, as well as help filling in the blanks! Tentatively decided: Foxconn P9657AA motherboard Core 2 Duo E6400 Sapphire Radeon X1950 Pro 2 x Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320 GB Lite-On SHM-165H6S DVD drive Logitech Media Keyboard Elite Black Logitech G5 mouse Logitech Z-2300 speakers Undecided: Case (nothing fancy, just functional and with enough space) Power supply Display (cheap 17" LCD) Memory (2 GB DDR2, but what brand and speed?) Thanks in advance, and please forgive the vagueness. Last edited by Aankhen; 16-12-2006 at 08:05 AM. Reason: Changing title

07-11-2006, 12:01 PM	#2 (permalink) Top
Big B HWF Godfather Join Date: Dec 2001 Age: 28 Male Posts: 9,636 Times Helpful: 585 My Mood: Devilish Status: Online My Computer	Well, what kind of budget are you looking at? $1000? $1500? What you might consider doing to save money is buy 1GB now and grab another 1GB later on. Power supplies: Anything around 500W or better from the following companies will do the job: Antec, Enermax, OCZ, Tagan, Silverstone, Hiper, Seasonic, FSP/Fortron/Sparkle, TTGI, and if you really have money to blow, PC Power & Cooling. __________________ Hardware Forums\|HWF Rules\|My DVD's\|PSU FAQ\|HWF Folding Team\|2CPU

08-11-2006, 04:41 AM	#9 (permalink) Top
Big B HWF Godfather Join Date: Dec 2001 Age: 28 Male Posts: 9,636 Times Helpful: 585 My Mood: Devilish Status: Online My Computer	These days, while 512MB is useable, if your gaming includes anything recent, it won't cut it, and 1GB is the minimum you want if you enjoy smooth play. Half-Life 2 and other Source engine games may be the exception, but I have a hard time believing that 512MB is sufficient for something like FEAR or Prey. $1200, for what you want if you build a box within that budget, the external affairs aren't going to come with it. To be honest, given some of the requirements you have, a more realistic goal is $1500 for the box. For everything, assuming on the Canadian dollar here, you should be able to do this under $2000 CAN. pausing for sticker shock Let me throw up a suggested list to cover the bases. I'm using TigerDirect Canada as a reference, so prices may differ. I didn't have a Radeon X1950 Pro that I could link to here, so I put a GeForce 7900GS in as a placeholder for the illustration. It's the X1950 Pro's competition and in the same price range. I still would go with the X1950 unless you'll largely play Doom 3, Quake 4 and/or Prey. Motherboard: MSI P965 Neo $126.99 CPU: Core 2 Duo E6300 $242.00 (the E6400 is $272.00, but it's something to weigh) RAM: Mushkin PC2-5400 2GB kit $304.00 Video Card: eVGA GeForce 7900GS $214 (with rebate) Hard Drive: Seagate 320GB $139.99 (x2 = $279.98) Optical Drive: Pioneer DVR-111BK 16x DVDRW $54.99 Power Supply: Enermax EG565P-VE 535W $114.99 Case: CoolerMaster Centurion 5 $63.99 E6300 box total: $1402.92 E6400 box total: $1432.92 Shipping and taxes not included Now for the rest: Keyboard: Logitech Media Keyboard $19.99 (I don't know if this is what you're looking at or not) Mouse: Logitech G5 $59.99 Speakers: Logitech Z-2300 $139.99 Monitor: Samsung SyncMaster 740N 17" LCD $229.99 Package totals: E6300: $1852.88 E6400: $1882.88 Tax and shipping extra Here's a few things to customize it to your tastes: Go into a store and look at any display you're considering for purchase. You're going to be sitting in front of this thing a lot, so you owe it to yourself to find a display that you like. The lower the response rate, the better, although don't go by specs alone. I tossed in the Samsung, as I've been impressed by their displays. IMO, their displays are on par with Sony, but without the ass-rape pricing. Same thing with the speakers: listen to them. I know a lot of people like them, but I've been very pleased with Creative speakers, especially for how cheap they were to pick up new. Reviews are great, but not everyone likes the same thing. I suggested the Pioneer DVD Burner as the DVR109 and 111 I've put in 2 of my systems have worked great without a hiccup, so I can't shut up about them. RAM: The Mushkin seemd to be a decent price for 2GB. A second suggestion to think about would be some Crucial stuff. Those were a little more expensive, so I didn't put those in. PC4200 is the lowest you want to go, but you may not save a whole lot of money between PC4200 and PC5400/5300. PC5400 and 5300 run at the same speeds, but there's a little bit of a war going on about what to call it. __________________ Hardware Forums\|HWF Rules\|My DVD's\|PSU FAQ\|HWF Folding Team\|2CPU

08-11-2006, 12:03 PM	#13 (permalink) Top
Big B HWF Godfather Join Date: Dec 2001 Age: 28 Male Posts: 9,636 Times Helpful: 585 My Mood: Devilish Status: Online My Computer	The Canadian dollar is noticably less than the US dollar. It's too bad Newegg doesn't ship there. I know they were considering it, but that may have been dropped. Right now, the Canadian dollar is worth about 88 Cents in the US. There's also heavier online competition in the US, so I'm sure that has some effect on pricing over you Canadians. TigerDirect.ca is the Canadian outlet for TigerDirect. NCIX.com would be another place to check prices out. Shipping it over might not save you any money, as you may have to pay an import fee. I shipped something to Canada once in a trade, and I had to declare a few things. One of those kept it from getting tagged, but I don't remember what. I recall one of the reviewers at 2CPU saying it sucked having to drop $100 to pick up a package for review. I'm not an expert on import laws, so that would be something to factor in on your cost. You could also buy a second hard drive later, which would cut some cash down. Right now, RAM prices have been going up thanks to the impending holiday season. What you might do is buy the main box, sans the second hard drive and then pick up the rest of the affairs over time. You might be able to cash in on the post Christmas deals and whatnot. __________________ Hardware Forums\|HWF Rules\|My DVD's\|PSU FAQ\|HWF Folding Team\|2CPU

10-12-2006, 07:25 AM	#14 (permalink) Top
Aankhen Geek Trainee Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 36 My Mood: Sleepy Status: Offline My Computer	Sorry about not responding for so long... I've been facing my own dilemmas and making compromises and sacrifices. Here's what I've ordered: Motherboard: Foxconn P9657AA Memory: OCZ Dual Channel XTC 2048MB PC2-5400 CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 Storage: 2 x Seagate 7200.10 320 GB Optical Drive: Pioneer DVR-111DBK Case: CoolerMaster Centurion 532 Power supply: Ultra X2 550W (bundle with the case) Mouse: Logitech G5 Graphics card: HIS X1950 Pro IceQ3 Turbo Keyboard: Logitech Media Keyboard Elite Display: Sceptre X20WG (20.1", 1680x1050, 5ms) All told, it came to about $50-100 more than the configuration suggested previously... in that, I got a 20.1" screen, the Core 2 Duo E6400, and the X1950 Pro, which was about $100 more than the GeForce 7900, before taxes. Oh yeah, the taxes were quite high... probably around $200-300 in total. If you're paying attention, you may have noticed that I'm missing speakers. The Sceptre has builtin speakers, so I decided to save the money for now (perhaps I'll buy the speakers next month). I doubt they would be worse than my laptop speakers... even if they are, I just have to lump it, since I've already gone so far over budget. So, this is the first system I'll be building. Any suggestions on what I should look out for? Also, could anyone tell me what tools I'd need? I've got a screwdriver, hammer, wrench, and pliers... anything else? Keep in mind, I'm completely new at this! EDIT: Almost forgot. For the curious, all the parts should be here by Friday, so I expect I'll try to get the system up and running over the weekend. Last edited by Aankhen; 10-12-2006 at 07:26 AM. Reason: Note about date

07-11-2006, 11:39 PM	#4 (permalink) Top
06ryan06 Geek Trainee Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 25 Status: Offline	i have 256mb and geting a upgrade to 512.512 should do all games fine but 1gb will ensure smooth gameplay.you seem to have enough hard drive space i only have 20 gb and it seems to be fine.so 320 will give u far more then enough.what ghz ur processor and how much cache u got? id say 2.8mhz and a good 4mb cache,so you get a smooth ride of data bien processed and no backloggin so no slow down of the game.

08-11-2006, 12:05 AM	#6 (permalink) Top
06ryan06 Geek Trainee Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 25 Status: Offline	im playing fm and fifa,im not up to date with graphic cards and video cards so jst mention the speeds and memory lol,4mb cache should keep the game flowing and not slowing up.most reconmendations are 256mb tho right?so 512 should be enough

10-12-2006, 12:19 PM	#15 (permalink) Top
Willz MiCrO$oFt $uK$ :D Join Date: Jun 2005 Age: 19 Male Posts: 4,234 Times Helpful: 150 My Mood: Lurking Status: Offline My Computer	Hi. I think that the 7900GS was actually better than an X1950Pro, you may of been better off buyign the E6300, as the only difference is clock speeds, and the whole range of core 2 duo's are really good overclockers. An Anti-Statis Wrist band would be good especially since this is your first build, its better to be safe than sorry :p. The power supply, i wouldent reccommend using it with such a good rig like that, especially since its bundled with a case, its not about total watts, its about the quality of the components used and the ratings of the 12v rails, i would highly reccommend purchasing a psu from a brand like tagen, hiper, antec, enermax, seasonic etc..., i dont belive that Ultra X will be good enough, and i wouldent reccommend using that computer untill you get a new psu. Apart from that, your rig is going to be awsome, i wish i had a rig like that :p __________________

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