PhysX PPU

roy92 · 09-06-2006, 10:20 AM

just when you mentioned physics, has ageia released their physix cards commercially? I'm really excited!

Matt555 · 09-06-2006, 11:29 AM

Yes they have, the BFG one has 128MB Memory on it whereas the ASUS has 256MB - BFG weren't happy about ASUS putting an extra 128MB of Memory onto the card.

Overclockers UK PhysX Accelerators

Big B · 09-06-2006, 01:04 PM

Keep in mind that the physics processor doesn't really offer any performance gains, and the eye candy isn't as great as what Ageia would like you to think. Unless you've got no better use for $300, there's really no good reason to buy a PhysX card.

roy92 · 09-06-2006, 11:46 PM

no it doesn't. it only allows you to handle a greater amount of physics on screen.

Matt555 · 09-06-2006, 11:51 PM

Yeah from the reviews I've read (and the screenshots I've seen - although they won't do it justice, in the review I read they said it made the game generally a bit more fun because you could thrown / destroy pretty much anything which gave a bit more realism but nothing major just yet) it doesn't look all that impressive at the minute, once games start to take this extra processing power into account then things will become better, currently there's no real need for it though.

roy92 · 10-06-2006, 12:05 AM

we'll have to watch this tech baby grow to maturity eh? not again.... why do all things good take so long to be 'good?'

Willz · 10-06-2006, 09:03 AM

at the moment, buying thses physics cards is a total waste of money, ATi and Nvidia rekon there cards can handle physics just fine, i have seen a screenie of GRAW when using physics card, all it does is let you have more stuff blown about when you shoot a wall or somthing, just enables more dirt on the floor, and lets you blow up cars more, somthing like that, you even need the physics card to play GRAW on max settings, even tho everything that the physics card does for that game can be done on it own with a high end cpu and Graphics card, and its not like someone with a low end graphics card, say 6600GT and under are going to buy a Physics card, those hpysics cards will die out, i bet direct x 10 graphics cards will have some sort of physics card thing build into it, tbh, games are spoilt if they require a physics card, becouse they are like £200, and you cant get the best out of the game, these physics cards just aint needed :\

All you need at moment, is a nice cpu, AMD 64 3500+, but i would say 3700+ and above, as 3700+ can match an fx57 when overclocked to 2.8ghz, now that can handle physics just good enough, and now there is quad core cpu's and stuff like that coming out, they will be just as good as a physice card.

3500+ and above
6800GT cards and above can handle games just well.

Addis · 12-06-2006, 10:09 PM

Initially, I was really interested with this new market area. Physics realism coupled with graphics define how the game submerges you into its world.

However, I've been disappointed with the current reviews of the card. It provides another processing unit which is "more suited" to handling physics and maths operations but doesn't offer a real world performance increase. In fact it actually lowers performance slightly.

We have to rely on the game developers to take advantage of the possibility of a dedicated physics card not just from Ageia. As the product matures, so will its supported game base, but its not worth to buy it at the moment.

Problem is that developers won't implement advanced physics code unless theres a widespread demand for it, and people won't buy the physics card if theres no advantage of having it.

Big B · 13-06-2006, 02:06 PM

Exactly. Ageia needs to be in this for the long haul. They've created a new market, just like 3D accelerators were 10 or so years ago when 3dfx was the only game in town. If Ageia understands this, then there may be a point where developers are able to say "Physics Accelerator Required". ATi and nVidia are getting interested in this too, so I don't think that Ageia has no validity. I do wonder if they'll be around to reap the rewards of a PPU market if it comes to fruition. They do have one thing going for them: the product is out and available for purchase. That goes a long way over stuff like the Phantom console and Duke Nukem For(n)ever. There is industry support for it, as UT 2007 and Unreal 3 are apparently supporting it. Given the popularity of the Unreal/UT games, that could be a real advantage for them.

Right now, we don't have enough physics that require acceleration. Granted, there is a move away from scripted sequences to dynamic ones which could give a PPU some clout. However, there has to be a need, and I don't think the need is there yet. Yes, hardware acceleration (true hardware acceleration) is pretty much given to be better than software. However, there has to be a need, as I've already said. It's also been pointed out that we're dealing with 1st gen hardware, so figuring out how to optimize PPUs and for PPUs is still new ground.

In a few years, it's possible that a PPU is needed. The problem is how to sell the PPU to the masses, because as cool as eye candy is, it's going to be a tough sell if something actually decreases performance or offers virtually no gains. If you sell something that not only looks good, but increases the performance, you're going to get people to open their wallets up.

Anti-Ailasing was introduced with the Voodoo 5 5500. At the time, FPS was the definitive base for performance in gaming. It's taken several years, but AA has made a difference, and people use it. Despite 3dfx being bought out by nVidia, they started a revolution. I think Ageia may do the same, but hopefully not with the same end result.

Willz · 13-06-2006, 02:13 PM

If ut2k7 is going to support the PPU, then it will get popular becouse the ut series is very popular, i will be getting a PPU after my x1900xt upgrade as i am a UT fan, the physics card has a good future is its going to be supported by all the good games coming out, is crysis going to support the physics card aswell?

could game developers make patches for current games like F.E.AR and UT2K4 etc.. so they can actually take advantage of the physics card?

Online stores should do bundles, eg high eng graphics card (X1900XTX) and the phsyics card etc.., and maybe take the price down a little.

Addis · 13-06-2006, 06:36 PM

I highly doubt patches being possible, as the whole physics engine has to be modified. But i'm not 100% sure. There are some games now that use the PPU, but nothing worth the hype.

Willz · 13-06-2006, 06:40 PM

meh, can these PPU's do anything else exept physics in games?

Big B · 19-06-2006, 07:05 PM

Possibly, but we'll have to see. If the market does take off, it's concievable that it could end up being helpful in workstations with game developing. That's just a guess. The first step is for the PPU to take off. If it does take off, I doubt it will be anytime soon. This is going to take some time to get up to speed. We've got a new market...and developing the demand for the product is going to take awhile. Anti-alaising wasn't a big deal back when the GeForce 2's were out, but today you've got scores of benchmarks devoted to AA tests. We're talking over 4 years ago, here. I am skeptical of the viability of the PPU at this point in time, but then again there were skeptics of the TV too...

beretta9m2f · 20-06-2006, 12:57 AM

Assuming that a game takes full advantage of the ppu, shouldn't games run faster with the ppu,? I figure the ppu would calculate things that the processor would normally take care of, thus freeing up processor load for other crap like, more onscreen characters or a higher frame rate. I'm probably talking out of my ass b/c i don't know too much about it, but i'm sort of making the connection of ppu to gpu. Onboard graphics are slow, but having an expansion agp/pci-e card takes the load off of the cpu, as does having a sound card instead of onboard. So technically could the ppu free up some resources?

Willz · 20-06-2006, 09:18 AM

well, the physics PPU does things like say in GRAW just adds more like bits when you destroy somthing etc.. and that actually lowers the framerate i belive, i cant think why :s maybe its becouse the graphics card has to render more stuff to what it would normally render?

09-06-2006, 10:20 AM	#1 (permalink) Top
roy92 CSS HAXOR Join Date: Feb 2006 Age: 15 Male Posts: 547 Times Helpful: 37 Status: Offline My Computer	Re: processor and motherboards just when you mentioned physics, has ageia released their physix cards commercially? I'm really excited! __________________ I helped someone! here - laptop hard drive here - graphics card problem this indeed is true Interested in SLI? visit slizone Need help with PSU's? drop by Big B's PSU sticky Nvidia Display Drivers - here ATI Display Drivers - here Hate spyware and adware? Grab spybot and adaware

09-06-2006, 11:29 AM	#2 (permalink) Top
Matt555 iMod Join Date: May 2005 Age: 21 Male Posts: 3,844 Times Helpful: 238 My Mood: Happy Status: Offline My Computer	Yes they have, the BFG one has 128MB Memory on it whereas the ASUS has 256MB - BFG weren't happy about ASUS putting an extra 128MB of Memory onto the card. Overclockers UK PhysX Accelerators __________________

09-06-2006, 01:04 PM	#3 (permalink) Top
Big B HWF Godfather Join Date: Dec 2001 Age: 28 Male Posts: 9,642 Times Helpful: 585 My Mood: Devilish Status: Offline My Computer	Keep in mind that the physics processor doesn't really offer any performance gains, and the eye candy isn't as great as what Ageia would like you to think. Unless you've got no better use for $300, there's really no good reason to buy a PhysX card. __________________ Hardware Forums\|HWF Rules\|My DVD's\|PSU FAQ\|HWF Folding Team\|2CPU

09-06-2006, 11:46 PM	#4 (permalink) Top
roy92 CSS HAXOR Join Date: Feb 2006 Age: 15 Male Posts: 547 Times Helpful: 37 Status: Offline My Computer	no it doesn't. it only allows you to handle a greater amount of physics on screen. __________________ I helped someone! here - laptop hard drive here - graphics card problem this indeed is true Interested in SLI? visit slizone Need help with PSU's? drop by Big B's PSU sticky Nvidia Display Drivers - here ATI Display Drivers - here Hate spyware and adware? Grab spybot and adaware

09-06-2006, 11:51 PM	#5 (permalink) Top
Matt555 iMod Join Date: May 2005 Age: 21 Male Posts: 3,844 Times Helpful: 238 My Mood: Happy Status: Offline My Computer	Yeah from the reviews I've read (and the screenshots I've seen - although they won't do it justice, in the review I read they said it made the game generally a bit more fun because you could thrown / destroy pretty much anything which gave a bit more realism but nothing major just yet) it doesn't look all that impressive at the minute, once games start to take this extra processing power into account then things will become better, currently there's no real need for it though. __________________

10-06-2006, 12:05 AM	#6 (permalink) Top
roy92 CSS HAXOR Join Date: Feb 2006 Age: 15 Male Posts: 547 Times Helpful: 37 Status: Offline My Computer	we'll have to watch this tech baby grow to maturity eh? not again.... why do all things good take so long to be 'good?' __________________ I helped someone! here - laptop hard drive here - graphics card problem this indeed is true Interested in SLI? visit slizone Need help with PSU's? drop by Big B's PSU sticky Nvidia Display Drivers - here ATI Display Drivers - here Hate spyware and adware? Grab spybot and adaware

10-06-2006, 09:03 AM	#7 (permalink) Top
Willz MiCrO$oFt $uK$ :D Join Date: Jun 2005 Age: 19 Male Posts: 4,234 Times Helpful: 150 My Mood: Lurking Status: Offline My Computer	at the moment, buying thses physics cards is a total waste of money, ATi and Nvidia rekon there cards can handle physics just fine, i have seen a screenie of GRAW when using physics card, all it does is let you have more stuff blown about when you shoot a wall or somthing, just enables more dirt on the floor, and lets you blow up cars more, somthing like that, you even need the physics card to play GRAW on max settings, even tho everything that the physics card does for that game can be done on it own with a high end cpu and Graphics card, and its not like someone with a low end graphics card, say 6600GT and under are going to buy a Physics card, those hpysics cards will die out, i bet direct x 10 graphics cards will have some sort of physics card thing build into it, tbh, games are spoilt if they require a physics card, becouse they are like £200, and you cant get the best out of the game, these physics cards just aint needed :\ All you need at moment, is a nice cpu, AMD 64 3500+, but i would say 3700+ and above, as 3700+ can match an fx57 when overclocked to 2.8ghz, now that can handle physics just good enough, and now there is quad core cpu's and stuff like that coming out, they will be just as good as a physice card. 3500+ and above 6800GT cards and above can handle games just well. __________________ Last edited by Willz; 10-06-2006 at 09:07 AM.

12-06-2006, 10:09 PM	#8 (permalink) Top
Addis The King Join Date: Jan 2004 Age: 18 Male Posts: 5,255 Times Helpful: 403 My Mood: Drunk Status: Offline My Computer	Initially, I was really interested with this new market area. Physics realism coupled with graphics define how the game submerges you into its world. However, I've been disappointed with the current reviews of the card. It provides another processing unit which is "more suited" to handling physics and maths operations but doesn't offer a real world performance increase. In fact it actually lowers performance slightly. We have to rely on the game developers to take advantage of the possibility of a dedicated physics card not just from Ageia. As the product matures, so will its supported game base, but its not worth to buy it at the moment. Problem is that developers won't implement advanced physics code unless theres a widespread demand for it, and people won't buy the physics card if theres no advantage of having it. __________________ Never trust a program you don't have the source code for. My website \| Powerful Desktop Linux \| Linux for human beings \| Linux for power users \| Linux for ricers

13-06-2006, 02:06 PM	#9 (permalink) Top
Big B HWF Godfather Join Date: Dec 2001 Age: 28 Male Posts: 9,642 Times Helpful: 585 My Mood: Devilish Status: Offline My Computer	Exactly. Ageia needs to be in this for the long haul. They've created a new market, just like 3D accelerators were 10 or so years ago when 3dfx was the only game in town. If Ageia understands this, then there may be a point where developers are able to say "Physics Accelerator Required". ATi and nVidia are getting interested in this too, so I don't think that Ageia has no validity. I do wonder if they'll be around to reap the rewards of a PPU market if it comes to fruition. They do have one thing going for them: the product is out and available for purchase. That goes a long way over stuff like the Phantom console and Duke Nukem For(n)ever. There is industry support for it, as UT 2007 and Unreal 3 are apparently supporting it. Given the popularity of the Unreal/UT games, that could be a real advantage for them. Right now, we don't have enough physics that require acceleration. Granted, there is a move away from scripted sequences to dynamic ones which could give a PPU some clout. However, there has to be a need, and I don't think the need is there yet. Yes, hardware acceleration (true hardware acceleration) is pretty much given to be better than software. However, there has to be a need, as I've already said. It's also been pointed out that we're dealing with 1st gen hardware, so figuring out how to optimize PPUs and for PPUs is still new ground. In a few years, it's possible that a PPU is needed. The problem is how to sell the PPU to the masses, because as cool as eye candy is, it's going to be a tough sell if something actually decreases performance or offers virtually no gains. If you sell something that not only looks good, but increases the performance, you're going to get people to open their wallets up. Anti-Ailasing was introduced with the Voodoo 5 5500. At the time, FPS was the definitive base for performance in gaming. It's taken several years, but AA has made a difference, and people use it. Despite 3dfx being bought out by nVidia, they started a revolution. I think Ageia may do the same, but hopefully not with the same end result. __________________ Hardware Forums\|HWF Rules\|My DVD's\|PSU FAQ\|HWF Folding Team\|2CPU

13-06-2006, 02:13 PM	#10 (permalink) Top
Willz MiCrO$oFt $uK$ :D Join Date: Jun 2005 Age: 19 Male Posts: 4,234 Times Helpful: 150 My Mood: Lurking Status: Offline My Computer	If ut2k7 is going to support the PPU, then it will get popular becouse the ut series is very popular, i will be getting a PPU after my x1900xt upgrade as i am a UT fan, the physics card has a good future is its going to be supported by all the good games coming out, is crysis going to support the physics card aswell? could game developers make patches for current games like F.E.AR and UT2K4 etc.. so they can actually take advantage of the physics card? Online stores should do bundles, eg high eng graphics card (X1900XTX) and the phsyics card etc.., and maybe take the price down a little. __________________

13-06-2006, 06:36 PM	#11 (permalink) Top
Addis The King Join Date: Jan 2004 Age: 18 Male Posts: 5,255 Times Helpful: 403 My Mood: Drunk Status: Offline My Computer	I highly doubt patches being possible, as the whole physics engine has to be modified. But i'm not 100% sure. There are some games now that use the PPU, but nothing worth the hype. __________________ Never trust a program you don't have the source code for. My website \| Powerful Desktop Linux \| Linux for human beings \| Linux for power users \| Linux for ricers

13-06-2006, 06:40 PM	#12 (permalink) Top
Willz MiCrO$oFt $uK$ :D Join Date: Jun 2005 Age: 19 Male Posts: 4,234 Times Helpful: 150 My Mood: Lurking Status: Offline My Computer	meh, can these PPU's do anything else exept physics in games? __________________

19-06-2006, 07:05 PM	#13 (permalink) Top
Big B HWF Godfather Join Date: Dec 2001 Age: 28 Male Posts: 9,642 Times Helpful: 585 My Mood: Devilish Status: Offline My Computer	Possibly, but we'll have to see. If the market does take off, it's concievable that it could end up being helpful in workstations with game developing. That's just a guess. The first step is for the PPU to take off. If it does take off, I doubt it will be anytime soon. This is going to take some time to get up to speed. We've got a new market...and developing the demand for the product is going to take awhile. Anti-alaising wasn't a big deal back when the GeForce 2's were out, but today you've got scores of benchmarks devoted to AA tests. We're talking over 4 years ago, here. I am skeptical of the viability of the PPU at this point in time, but then again there were skeptics of the TV too... __________________ Hardware Forums\|HWF Rules\|My DVD's\|PSU FAQ\|HWF Folding Team\|2CPU

20-06-2006, 12:57 AM	#14 (permalink) Top
beretta9m2f Karate-Chop Action Gabe Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 24 Male Posts: 320 Times Helpful: 11 My Mood: Pumped Status: Offline My Computer	Assuming that a game takes full advantage of the ppu, shouldn't games run faster with the ppu,? I figure the ppu would calculate things that the processor would normally take care of, thus freeing up processor load for other crap like, more onscreen characters or a higher frame rate. I'm probably talking out of my ass b/c i don't know too much about it, but i'm sort of making the connection of ppu to gpu. Onboard graphics are slow, but having an expansion agp/pci-e card takes the load off of the cpu, as does having a sound card instead of onboard. So technically could the ppu free up some resources?

20-06-2006, 09:18 AM	#15 (permalink) Top
Willz MiCrO$oFt $uK$ :D Join Date: Jun 2005 Age: 19 Male Posts: 4,234 Times Helpful: 150 My Mood: Lurking Status: Offline My Computer	well, the physics PPU does things like say in GRAW just adds more like bits when you destroy somthing etc.. and that actually lowers the framerate i belive, i cant think why :s maybe its becouse the graphics card has to render more stuff to what it would normally render? __________________

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