Rebuilding after the meltdown.

Ijen · 27-06-2009, 11:46 AM

So, there I was at my computer which I put together about 6 years ago, when I became aware of an acrid stench. Fearing the worst, I peered inside the case to discover the fan had melted and dropped off my graphics card. Suffice to say, I turned it off quickly.

Existing system;

Mobo – MSI 865pe Neo2 t-break - MSI 865PE Neo2 (865) Motherboard
CPU – P4 2.8 Ghz
RAM – 2Gb DDR 400
GPU (RIP) – Radeon 9800pro 128Mb
IDE drives – CDRW, DVD ROM // Primary HD (Windows XP), Secondary HD
SATA1 drive (Ubuntu)
PSU – 520w

What to do?

The budget option, as far as I can see, would be to simply get another AGP graphics card. If not something cheap, then a Radeon 3850 type thing? In favor of this solution is the low cost and the fact that the old components still do the job. 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it', as they say.
The only other solution I know of would involve ditching everything from my existing system (including IDE drives) except the case and, perhaps, the 520w PSU. A lot more expensive but relatively better value - and a better long term solution. This is where I need help – I'm out of the loop with current hardware and would really appreciate some advice. What are my options?

Requirements;

Digital painting; I'd like to be able to run Photoshop/Gimp/Painter and the like at extremely high resolutions, lots of layers, complex brushes and so on...
3D modeling – Blender, etc...
All the obvious desktop and Internet activities.
Probably not too much high-end gaming these days – it'd be nice to have the option but not too much of the extra cost.

If you'd be so kind, I'd like multiple suggestions for what you'd do, categorised by budget;

Budget £low / £mid / £ideal
MOBO
CPU
RAM
GPU

I'd be super, super grateful for links to specific components...

Misco.co.uk
Overclockers UK
dabs.com
Amazon.co.uk
Microdirect.co.uk

Cheers,

Ijen

Anti-Trend · 27-06-2009, 06:05 PM

The chassis and PSU are only a small part of the cost of a new PC, so it doesn't make much sense to upgrade around them. This is especially true if the PSU is generic, because in that case it isn't likely to provide anywhere near the power output it claims. If I was in your position, I would replace the video card and start saving to buy a new PC if that's the route you want to take. That way you'll have 2 working PCs (you can always sell one or give it to a friend or relative!), instead of just one plus a bunch of worthless and outdated spare parts.

P.S. - If you're heavily into Linux, note that NVidia currently has much better Linux drivers than ATI. Much, much much better. So it may be worth considering an NVidia replacement instead. You can probably get a used 6xxx series GeForce for a good price.

Ijen · 27-06-2009, 07:17 PM

Sound advice, Anti-Trend - I've already gone ahead and got a new graphics card for my old rig - a Radeon x1650pro. However, I hadn't read your advice on Linux/graphics driver compatibility and in any case it was the only AGP card I could find in any of the shops I looked in. I'll consider that next time though.

I was actually under the impression my PSU is rather decent, however I'm having some trouble getting the whole system to work with the new card and I'm starting to smell a rat... literally. A big cuboid noisy acrid stinking rat

So... yeah. Looks like I'll be saving up then.

Ijen · 28-06-2009, 03:30 PM

Aaarrh ooooer, now, it seems, I have problems.
The story so far; last wednesday the fan on my Radeon9800pro melted and dropped off. The card carried on working however I noticed the bad smell, turned the computer off and removed it. Then I went out and bought a replacement AGP card.

Originally I couldn't get the new card (a Powercolor Radeon x1650pro) to work at all. Just... nothing. Only the computer fans worked. By changing the power cables around I eventually got the computer booting. I noted that under one power cable configuration I tried, the PSU made a bad smell.

So, having found a power cable configuration that lets the computer load the BIOS, I found it doesnt load all my drives. Most of the time it misses both the CD and DVD drive and the primary IDE drive. It finds the SATA drive every time.

Every now and again it finds the CD drive so I run ERD Commander 2005, however I can't do anything useful in there besides look at the secondary IDE drive.

The MBR on the primary IDE drive doesn't respond, even when the drive shows up in the BIOS. The MBR on the SATA drive (Grub, for Ubuntu) responds but throws an error. I think it's because it's dependent on the primary IDE drive.

I've tried disconnecting everything except the bare essentials and each drive individually. The results are inconsistent.

Just now, I put my old Radeon9800 back in - it's just missing the fan but the heatsink is there and, when I tried it, the computer started up and proceeded to behave in exactly the same way as the x1650 pro. This leads me to suspect the graphics card isn't the issue here.

As far as I can see, the prime suspects are the motherboard and the PSU. Any advice or suggestions would be very greatfully appreciated.

Also, I suppose this leads to option2 in my original post; what to do about a whole new system?

Cheers,

Ijen

Anti-Trend · 29-06-2009, 05:24 AM

Replace the PSU on general principle, since it is generic. As for the mobo, I would sniff around for bad capacitors, which look and act like batteries, and fail in the same manner. If something's going to fail on a motherboard, the caps are always the most likely suspect.

27-06-2009, 11:46 AM	# 1 (permalink) Top
Ijen Geek Trainee Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 4 Status: Offline	Rebuilding after the meltdown. So, there I was at my computer which I put together about 6 years ago, when I became aware of an acrid stench. Fearing the worst, I peered inside the case to discover the fan had melted and dropped off my graphics card. Suffice to say, I turned it off quickly. Existing system; Mobo – MSI 865pe Neo2 t-break - MSI 865PE Neo2 (865) Motherboard CPU – P4 2.8 Ghz RAM – 2Gb DDR 400 GPU (RIP) – Radeon 9800pro 128Mb IDE drives – CDRW, DVD ROM // Primary HD (Windows XP), Secondary HD SATA1 drive (Ubuntu) PSU – 520w What to do? The budget option, as far as I can see, would be to simply get another AGP graphics card. If not something cheap, then a Radeon 3850 type thing? In favor of this solution is the low cost and the fact that the old components still do the job. 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it', as they say. The only other solution I know of would involve ditching everything from my existing system (including IDE drives) except the case and, perhaps, the 520w PSU. A lot more expensive but relatively better value - and a better long term solution. This is where I need help – I'm out of the loop with current hardware and would really appreciate some advice. What are my options? Requirements; Digital painting; I'd like to be able to run Photoshop/Gimp/Painter and the like at extremely high resolutions, lots of layers, complex brushes and so on... 3D modeling – Blender, etc... All the obvious desktop and Internet activities. Probably not too much high-end gaming these days – it'd be nice to have the option but not too much of the extra cost. If you'd be so kind, I'd like multiple suggestions for what you'd do, categorised by budget; Budget £low / £mid / £ideal MOBO CPU RAM GPU I'd be super, super grateful for links to specific components... Misco.co.uk Overclockers UK dabs.com Amazon.co.uk Microdirect.co.uk Cheers, Ijen Last edited by Ijen; 27-06-2009 at 11:51 AM..

27-06-2009, 06:05 PM	# 2 (permalink) Top
Anti-Trend Nonconformist Geek Join Date: Oct 2003 Age: 28 Male Posts: 5,520 Times Helpful: 662 Status: Offline My Computer	The chassis and PSU are only a small part of the cost of a new PC, so it doesn't make much sense to upgrade around them. This is especially true if the PSU is generic, because in that case it isn't likely to provide anywhere near the power output it claims. If I was in your position, I would replace the video card and start saving to buy a new PC if that's the route you want to take. That way you'll have 2 working PCs (you can always sell one or give it to a friend or relative!), instead of just one plus a bunch of worthless and outdated spare parts. P.S. - If you're heavily into Linux, note that NVidia currently has much better Linux drivers than ATI. Much, much much better. So it may be worth considering an NVidia replacement instead. You can probably get a used 6xxx series GeForce for a good price. __________________ Try Linux \| Install Linux \| Visit My Server \| Support HWF \| HWF Kernel Repo \| Remember Everything

27-06-2009, 07:17 PM	# 3 (permalink) Top
Ijen Geek Trainee Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 4 Status: Offline	Sound advice, Anti-Trend - I've already gone ahead and got a new graphics card for my old rig - a Radeon x1650pro. However, I hadn't read your advice on Linux/graphics driver compatibility and in any case it was the only AGP card I could find in any of the shops I looked in. I'll consider that next time though. I was actually under the impression my PSU is rather decent, however I'm having some trouble getting the whole system to work with the new card and I'm starting to smell a rat... literally. A big cuboid noisy acrid stinking rat So... yeah. Looks like I'll be saving up then. Last edited by Ijen; 27-06-2009 at 07:20 PM..

29-06-2009, 05:24 AM	# 5 (permalink) Top
Anti-Trend Nonconformist Geek Join Date: Oct 2003 Age: 28 Male Posts: 5,520 Times Helpful: 662 Status: Offline My Computer	Replace the PSU on general principle, since it is generic. As for the mobo, I would sniff around for bad capacitors, which look and act like batteries, and fail in the same manner. If something's going to fail on a motherboard, the caps are always the most likely suspect. __________________ Try Linux \| Install Linux \| Visit My Server \| Support HWF \| HWF Kernel Repo \| Remember Everything

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28-06-2009, 03:30 PM	# 4 (permalink) Top
Ijen Geek Trainee Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 4 Status: Offline	Aaarrh ooooer, now, it seems, I have problems. The story so far; last wednesday the fan on my Radeon9800pro melted and dropped off. The card carried on working however I noticed the bad smell, turned the computer off and removed it. Then I went out and bought a replacement AGP card. Originally I couldn't get the new card (a Powercolor Radeon x1650pro) to work at all. Just... nothing. Only the computer fans worked. By changing the power cables around I eventually got the computer booting. I noted that under one power cable configuration I tried, the PSU made a bad smell. So, having found a power cable configuration that lets the computer load the BIOS, I found it doesnt load all my drives. Most of the time it misses both the CD and DVD drive and the primary IDE drive. It finds the SATA drive every time. Every now and again it finds the CD drive so I run ERD Commander 2005, however I can't do anything useful in there besides look at the secondary IDE drive. The MBR on the primary IDE drive doesn't respond, even when the drive shows up in the BIOS. The MBR on the SATA drive (Grub, for Ubuntu) responds but throws an error. I think it's because it's dependent on the primary IDE drive. I've tried disconnecting everything except the bare essentials and each drive individually. The results are inconsistent. Just now, I put my old Radeon9800 back in - it's just missing the fan but the heatsink is there and, when I tried it, the computer started up and proceeded to behave in exactly the same way as the x1650 pro. This leads me to suspect the graphics card isn't the issue here. As far as I can see, the prime suspects are the motherboard and the PSU. Any advice or suggestions would be very greatfully appreciated. Also, I suppose this leads to option2 in my original post; what to do about a whole new system? Cheers, Ijen

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