Serious help needed please-3D applications & graphics card problem

jason · 17-07-2008, 11:28 AM

Hi to everyone here on the boards, hope your all well.

Ok, my topic may look like a lot of reading but I would be so grateful to anyone who takes the time to read it and try and help me out, as I am Desperately in need of some serious technical help and advice. The following info is all needed to help explain my issues and demonstrate my problems too.

Basically, a few months ago I dished out close to £3000 on a custom built machine from Computer Planet in Manchester for use with the Adobe create suite CS3 and Maxons Cinema 4D version 10.5 only. That’s it. I have not installed any other software of programs except for some 3D benchmark applications.

Everything appears to work perfectly except for Cinema 4D. When I use this program I get serious display issues and sometimes crashes too. I have attached some images, which show some of these errors in case that helps. The majority of the serious display issues seem to occur when I drag something/ rotate the editor window or pull some points when modelling. One of the strangest issues is that sometimes when I use a selection tool, like the rectangle selection tool for instance. If I drag it back and forth I get numerous mouse trails and within/underneath these mouse trails I can see the rendered version of a previously modelled and long since closed file (image3).

Maxon support have been extremely prompt and helpful with my issues but say it must be a hardware fault and after trying all there suggestions to fix the problem. I have basically come to the conclusion that this is the case too. The thing is, everything else works perfectly and all my hardware is less than 3 months old and was brand new. Here is a list of all the things I have tried to fix my problems:

Breakdown of solutions tried:

1. Uninstall and re-install of Cinema 4D
2. Modification and fine tuning of graphics card settings
3. Disabling desktop composition
4. Enabling software shading / disabling enhanced openGL
5. Testing both 32 and 64-bit versions of Cinema 4D
6. Checking and eliminating specific software display settings from
within Cinema 4D (smart options etc)
7. Total reformat and re-installation of Windows operating system ( 2
times )
8. Enabling compatibility mode
9. Downloading ALL latest updates and drivers for all installed hardware
and software.
10. Changing and eliminating different desktop colour schemes such as Windows basic, classic and vista basic
11. Checking for disc errors on all hard drives

Here are the main components of my set up:

Intel Quad core extreme x9650 running at factory shipped 3.00 GHz
XFX nForce 780i tri sli board
1 x BFG Nvidia 9800 GX2 1GB graphics card (factory shipped speed)
Windows Vista ultimate 64-bit op. system
8GB Geil ram
3 x Raptor 150GB 10,000rpm hard drives
Thermaltake 1000W PSU

Please can anyone help me out as to what the problem could be?
1. If it were a hardware fault would I not experience problems elsewhere too?

2. If my graphics card/ other hardware is faulty surely I would get problem when running various 3D benchmark applications wouldn’t I?

3. 3. Is there any way to find out of my graphics card has a fault?

4. Could it be anything to do with how my graphics card is set up in the Bios or anything like that?

Any help anyone can give will be greatly appreciated as I basically have software I can’t use accuretly and can’t afford to spend any more on new hardware or a different graphics card either.

Thanks in advance,

Jay

donkey42 · 17-07-2008, 03:59 PM

you don't state what the swapfile / pagefile is set to, what is it ?

and the software you are using probably has a minimum swapfile size

jason · 17-07-2008, 04:03 PM

Hi donkey42,

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I can't tell you how desperate I am to find the solution to this. Please could you bare with me here and tell me how I would find the info you requested as I am not too sure.

Thanks again m8,

Jay

donkey42 · 17-07-2008, 04:31 PM

checking net for setting virtual memory / pagefile / swapfile cos i use linux & have never even seen Vista because personally i would never use Vista, but thats up to me

Edit: right click "My Computer" & select proiperties, Advanced tab -> Settings & you may have to click "Advavced" -> Change

what is the pagefile size ?

Edit: don't worry, we all have to learn,we don't just wake up knowing loadsa crap, we have to learn

BTW: you are on NTFS arn't you ?

jason · 17-07-2008, 04:53 PM

Hi m8 and thanks again for taking time to help me out! Ok, my total paging file says: 8489MB. Does that sound right? I have 8GB of ram. It is not what the recommended size says it should be (12283MB) , but is set to "let system manage it". Yes, I am on NTFS too.

Cheers,

Jay

donkey42 · 17-07-2008, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason

Hi m8 and thanks again for taking time to help me out! Ok, my total paging file says: 8489mb. Does that sound right?

well for general use it's fine, but, because your using graphic intensive apps i would whack it up to about 12GB, restart system & see how it goes

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason

I have 8GB of ram. It is not what the recommended size says it should be

it will probably say in the software manual, i can't find it online

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason

is set to "let system manage it".

not a good idea, because Vista will waste time & resources resizing the swapfile & the swapfile will become fragmented

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason

Yes, I am on NTFS too.

donkey42 · 17-07-2008, 05:15 PM

12GB is 12288MB, set it to that

jason · 17-07-2008, 07:43 PM

donkey42, your a star m8

I can't thank you enough for taking the time to find all this stuff out for me, even if it does not solve my problem. Can I just ask how the page file affects display or visual content please? I am just curious so I understand this issue better for future reference.

This is the first time I have seen this mentioned as a possible cause of my problems and am very hopeful it might solve it too. I have tried virtually everything else so here goes.

Speak soon and all the best,

Jay

jason · 17-07-2008, 07:47 PM

One more thing please. In my options for page file I have the following options to complete:

initial size

maximum size

Please could you help me out a little with where i put the 12288MB and what I should put in the other.

Thanks again m8,

Jay

donkey42 · 17-07-2008, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason

Can I just ask how the page file affects display or visual content please?

well to put it simply Vista uses the swapfile as virtual memory (RAM) so when your system runs out of RAM it uses the some HDD space as virtual memory, and obviously HDDs are slower than actual RAM, so using HDD space as virtual memory is much much slower

for a full description see wikipedias Virtual Memory page

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason

Please could you help me out a little with where i put the 12288MB and what I should put in the other.

12288MB in both initial & maximum, then the swapfile (showing my age. because generally today its called a pagefile) size can't change, to keep Vista from continually resizing the swapfile & keep file fragmentation to a minimum

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason

Thanks again m8

no probs, glad to help!

jason · 17-07-2008, 08:40 PM

Thanks, that's great and really helps. My only thought would be surely I am not running out of ram if I have 8GB and so far only modelling basic objects.

I will try the fix now and see if it helps.

Take care and thanks again,

Jay

donkey42 · 17-07-2008, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason

Thanks, that's great and really helps. My only thought would be surely I am not running out of ram if I have 8GB and so far only modelling basic objects.

well, theoretically, you are correct, i'm not sure this is right, but, i would guess that MS are making sure that every system their (crappy) OS is installed on doesn't use all it's RAM, which is why some HDD space is used as virtual memory, personally, i will never knowingly use Vista, i use Linux because i know it is better, but, if you know / like Vista thats your choice, everyone is free to use whichever OS they want

BTW: the last MS OS i used was XP SP2 (32bit, i may be wrong but i don't even know if they did a 64bit XP)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason

I will try the fix now and see if it helps.

good luck

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason

Take care and thanks again,

no big deal, it gives me something to do

BTW: if in doubt, give it a clout & if all else fails hit it with a BFH vv hard

Dwarfer · 18-07-2008, 10:22 AM

I have the same problem in studio max, the top part of an object would move, but the bottom half would remain stationary.

I found that when I rotate the 'camera' around its axis the bottom half would then match the top, also I would "Restore Down" and "Restore Up" the application (double clicking on the top bar of the program) this also fixes the problem for me.

I know this doesnt provide a perminent fix, but I saw you was desperate, hope this works for you as a temp fix.

jason · 18-07-2008, 01:47 PM

Hi donkey42,

Thanks once again for the reply. Ok, although I have actually had one "not responding" message briefly. Cinema 4D does appear to be more stable and I have not yet experienced my main display issues since changing the paging file either.

I am keeping my fingers crossed that this has made a big impact and can't thank you enough for all your sound advice, even it does not completely solve this strange issue in the long run. Hopefully it will though and I am banging away at it to try and see if the problems come back.

If this does indeed solve the issue then I will send this off to Maxon (giving you credit of course

) to let them know as I am sure they would be very interested in this solution which they never thought of.

As for using Vista, I know what you mean but couldn't see the point in purchasing a new computer with XP on it and with all fairness. Apart from this one single display issue everything else so far works perfectly too. I had no experience with Linux systems so I couldn't consider that as an option this time, but maybe in the future?

Dwarfer, thanks also for your reply m8. It is really good to hear from someone else who has experienced similar problems as so far your about the only one apart from me! I will also try your solution and see if it helps if and when my main display issues re-occur.

Thanks once again to you both and especially donkey42, for all your time. I owe you one!

Take care and I will let you know if the problem come back or have been solved for good!

L8rz,

Jay

donkey42 · 18-07-2008, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason

Thanks once again for the reply. Ok, although I have actually had one "not responding" message briefly.

personally i'd say it was probably Vista

Off Topic:

i really dislike MS

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason

Cinema 4D does appear to be more stable and I have not yet experienced my main display issues since changing the paging file either.

I am keeping my fingers crossed that this has made a big impact and can't thank you enough for all your sound advice, even it does not completely solve this strange issue in the long run. Hopefully it will though and I am banging away at it to try and see if the problems come back.

, glad to be helpful & i'll hope it's sorted too

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason

If this does indeed solve the issue then I will send this off to Maxon (giving you credit of course

) to let them know as I am sure they would be very interested in this solution which they never thought of.

thankies

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason

Take care and I will let you know if the problem come back or have been solved for good!

it will be good to have feedback

17-07-2008, 11:28 AM	#1 (permalink) Top
jason Geek Trainee Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 9 Status: Offline	Serious help needed please-3D applications & graphics card problem Hi to everyone here on the boards, hope your all well. Ok, my topic may look like a lot of reading but I would be so grateful to anyone who takes the time to read it and try and help me out, as I am Desperately in need of some serious technical help and advice. The following info is all needed to help explain my issues and demonstrate my problems too. Basically, a few months ago I dished out close to £3000 on a custom built machine from Computer Planet in Manchester for use with the Adobe create suite CS3 and Maxons Cinema 4D version 10.5 only. That’s it. I have not installed any other software of programs except for some 3D benchmark applications. Everything appears to work perfectly except for Cinema 4D. When I use this program I get serious display issues and sometimes crashes too. I have attached some images, which show some of these errors in case that helps. The majority of the serious display issues seem to occur when I drag something/ rotate the editor window or pull some points when modelling. One of the strangest issues is that sometimes when I use a selection tool, like the rectangle selection tool for instance. If I drag it back and forth I get numerous mouse trails and within/underneath these mouse trails I can see the rendered version of a previously modelled and long since closed file (image3). Maxon support have been extremely prompt and helpful with my issues but say it must be a hardware fault and after trying all there suggestions to fix the problem. I have basically come to the conclusion that this is the case too. The thing is, everything else works perfectly and all my hardware is less than 3 months old and was brand new. Here is a list of all the things I have tried to fix my problems: Breakdown of solutions tried: 1. Uninstall and re-install of Cinema 4D 2. Modification and fine tuning of graphics card settings 3. Disabling desktop composition 4. Enabling software shading / disabling enhanced openGL 5. Testing both 32 and 64-bit versions of Cinema 4D 6. Checking and eliminating specific software display settings from within Cinema 4D (smart options etc) 7. Total reformat and re-installation of Windows operating system ( 2 times ) 8. Enabling compatibility mode 9. Downloading ALL latest updates and drivers for all installed hardware and software. 10. Changing and eliminating different desktop colour schemes such as Windows basic, classic and vista basic 11. Checking for disc errors on all hard drives Here are the main components of my set up: Intel Quad core extreme x9650 running at factory shipped 3.00 GHz XFX nForce 780i tri sli board 1 x BFG Nvidia 9800 GX2 1GB graphics card (factory shipped speed) Windows Vista ultimate 64-bit op. system 8GB Geil ram 3 x Raptor 150GB 10,000rpm hard drives Thermaltake 1000W PSU Please can anyone help me out as to what the problem could be? 1. If it were a hardware fault would I not experience problems elsewhere too? 2. If my graphics card/ other hardware is faulty surely I would get problem when running various 3D benchmark applications wouldn’t I? 3. 3. Is there any way to find out of my graphics card has a fault? 4. Could it be anything to do with how my graphics card is set up in the Bios or anything like that? Any help anyone can give will be greatly appreciated as I basically have software I can’t use accuretly and can’t afford to spend any more on new hardware or a different graphics card either. Thanks in advance, Jay Attached Thumbnails Last edited by jason; 20-08-2008 at 12:53 AM.

17-07-2008, 03:59 PM	#2 (permalink) Top
donkey42 Paranoid Geeky Geek Join Date: Mar 2006 Age: 34 Male Posts: 5,667 Times Helpful: 303 My Mood: Paranoid Status: Offline My Computer	you don't state what the swapfile / pagefile is set to, what is it ? and the software you are using probably has a minimum swapfile size __________________ GRUB manual \| Google Linux \| Distrowatch \| Linux Chix \| Kubuntu \| My Mini City

17-07-2008, 04:31 PM	#4 (permalink) Top
donkey42 Paranoid Geeky Geek Join Date: Mar 2006 Age: 34 Male Posts: 5,667 Times Helpful: 303 My Mood: Paranoid Status: Offline My Computer	checking net for setting virtual memory / pagefile / swapfile cos i use linux & have never even seen Vista because personally i would never use Vista, but thats up to me Edit: right click "My Computer" & select proiperties, Advanced tab -> Settings & you may have to click "Advavced" -> Change what is the pagefile size ? Edit: don't worry, we all have to learn,we don't just wake up knowing loadsa crap, we have to learn BTW: you are on NTFS arn't you ? __________________ GRUB manual \| Google Linux \| Distrowatch \| Linux Chix \| Kubuntu \| My Mini City Last edited by donkey42; 17-07-2008 at 04:44 PM. Reason: edit

17-07-2008, 04:53 PM	#5 (permalink) Top
jason Geek Trainee Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 9 Status: Offline	Hi m8 and thanks again for taking time to help me out! Ok, my total paging file says: 8489MB. Does that sound right? I have 8GB of ram. It is not what the recommended size says it should be (12283MB) , but is set to "let system manage it". Yes, I am on NTFS too. Cheers, Jay Last edited by jason; 17-07-2008 at 04:56 PM.

17-07-2008, 05:15 PM	#7 (permalink) Top
donkey42 Paranoid Geeky Geek Join Date: Mar 2006 Age: 34 Male Posts: 5,667 Times Helpful: 303 My Mood: Paranoid Status: Offline My Computer	12GB is 12288MB, set it to that __________________ GRUB manual \| Google Linux \| Distrowatch \| Linux Chix \| Kubuntu \| My Mini City

17-07-2008, 04:03 PM	#3 (permalink) Top
jason Geek Trainee Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 9 Status: Offline	Hi donkey42, Thanks for taking the time to reply. I can't tell you how desperate I am to find the solution to this. Please could you bare with me here and tell me how I would find the info you requested as I am not too sure. Thanks again m8, Jay

17-07-2008, 07:43 PM	#8 (permalink) Top
jason Geek Trainee Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 9 Status: Offline	donkey42, your a star m8 I can't thank you enough for taking the time to find all this stuff out for me, even if it does not solve my problem. Can I just ask how the page file affects display or visual content please? I am just curious so I understand this issue better for future reference. This is the first time I have seen this mentioned as a possible cause of my problems and am very hopeful it might solve it too. I have tried virtually everything else so here goes. Speak soon and all the best, Jay

17-07-2008, 07:47 PM	#9 (permalink) Top
jason Geek Trainee Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 9 Status: Offline	One more thing please. In my options for page file I have the following options to complete: initial size maximum size Please could you help me out a little with where i put the 12288MB and what I should put in the other. Thanks again m8, Jay

17-07-2008, 08:40 PM	#11 (permalink) Top
jason Geek Trainee Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 9 Status: Offline	Thanks, that's great and really helps. My only thought would be surely I am not running out of ram if I have 8GB and so far only modelling basic objects. I will try the fix now and see if it helps. Take care and thanks again, Jay

18-07-2008, 10:22 AM	#13 (permalink) Top
Dwarfer RiP Emily xxx Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 737 Times Helpful: 35 My Mood: Meh Status: Offline My Computer	I have the same problem in studio max, the top part of an object would move, but the bottom half would remain stationary. I found that when I rotate the 'camera' around its axis the bottom half would then match the top, also I would "Restore Down" and "Restore Up" the application (double clicking on the top bar of the program) this also fixes the problem for me. I know this doesnt provide a perminent fix, but I saw you was desperate, hope this works for you as a temp fix. __________________ Animals stripped ALIVE and left to die to make fur for you! SPREAD THE WORD TO STOP THIS HAPPENING I BEG YOU ON BEHALF OF ALL INNOCENT ANIMALS PLEASE STOP EATING CHICKEN AND BEEF TO STOP THIS FROM HAPPENING. - THERE IS NO SLAUGHTER ACT FOR CHICKENS AND MANY HOUSES ADOPT TO COMPLETE INHUMAINE WAYS OF CATTLE SLAUGHTER FOR PROFITS Kentucky Fried Cruelty, chicken slaughter truth

18-07-2008, 01:47 PM	#14 (permalink) Top
jason Geek Trainee Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 9 Status: Offline	Hi donkey42, Thanks once again for the reply. Ok, although I have actually had one "not responding" message briefly. Cinema 4D does appear to be more stable and I have not yet experienced my main display issues since changing the paging file either. I am keeping my fingers crossed that this has made a big impact and can't thank you enough for all your sound advice, even it does not completely solve this strange issue in the long run. Hopefully it will though and I am banging away at it to try and see if the problems come back. If this does indeed solve the issue then I will send this off to Maxon (giving you credit of course ) to let them know as I am sure they would be very interested in this solution which they never thought of. As for using Vista, I know what you mean but couldn't see the point in purchasing a new computer with XP on it and with all fairness. Apart from this one single display issue everything else so far works perfectly too. I had no experience with Linux systems so I couldn't consider that as an option this time, but maybe in the future? Dwarfer, thanks also for your reply m8. It is really good to hear from someone else who has experienced similar problems as so far your about the only one apart from me! I will also try your solution and see if it helps if and when my main display issues re-occur. Thanks once again to you both and especially donkey42, for all your time. I owe you one! Take care and I will let you know if the problem come back or have been solved for good! L8rz, Jay Last edited by jason; 18-07-2008 at 01:50 PM.

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