US Gov. bails out JP Morgan / AIG

Swansen · 21-09-2008, 06:38 PM

At least i hope most of you know about this, well, especially those who live in the US. In a nutshell, they just printed more money to cover the debt, even if you don't know anything about economics, it doesn't take a geneius to figure out that that is a good way to destroy an economy. If you want to be informed a little more on the subject, look at this video.

The Potential End Of America's Government

Big B · 22-09-2008, 03:03 AM

Yeah, I love how we bail out companies like this. Look, if a business can't hold it up themselves, then it should be let fail, not coddled.

Anti-Trend · 23-09-2008, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big B

Yeah, I love how we bail out companies like this. Look, if a business can't hold it up themselves, then it should be let fail, not coddled.

Exactly. They want an unregulated market, yet they want socialism when their stock fails. Who pays for it? Us. Well, there are hundreds of times more lobbyists than there are congresspeople, so it should come as no surprise.

When government runs industry, it's called communism. When industry runs government, it's called fascism. For extra credit, who can tell me what type of government runs the west? Anyone?

sabashuali · 23-09-2008, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti-Trend

For extra credit, who can tell me what type of government runs the west? Anyone?

Saudi....?

Swansen · 24-09-2008, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabashuali

Saudi....?

lol, yeah the US is a messed up place right now, no kidding. What bothers me is how blind people are, they just follow whatever "party" they believe in right into the ground, regardless of who or what is running it. Thats all besides the point, even though corporate America is running the government, the point is the Federal Reserve just printed bills to give out a loan, because we don't have anything in the reserve. Like the guy said in the video, there hasn't been a nation thats survived after they did something like this. So how could our government decide thats a good idea?? No, i don't think our nation is going to crash and burn, banking isn't the same as it used to be, there are a million banks out there now, but this is still really messed up though.

----edit------
However, there is still a problem here, we have a representative government, more or less, but if no one chooses to be represented, who do they represent other than themselves. People don't want to do anything, and then they complain when it is the way it is, its just dumbfounding.

Swansen · 28-09-2008, 08:53 PM

YouTube - Go Viral: STOP THE BAILOUT OR.... DEPRESSION?

Big B · 01-10-2008, 02:01 PM

I think a few things need to happen.

1.) Government needs to GTFO. If you look back, part of this was created by the government's involvement. If that's not enough, the way things like Amtrack and the Postal Service have been handled should tell you all you need to know about how well the government does at running business. They suck because they can always tax or print more money. Real businesses can't make money grow on trees.

2.) Those who are involved with screwing this up on purpose by design or ignorance need to be prosecuted. I am looking at you Sen. Dodd and your buds. I'm also looking at the CEO's and others that have tanked these businesses.

3.) The companies need to self regulate. As stated before, I'm not in favor of the government getting involved in running a business. It hasn't worked before, and it's not going to work now. One thing that should be implemented by the companies is to have a negative consequence for CEO's and others that foul up. Look, if someone's driving your company into the ground, why would you ever want to send them off with a fat retirement package? Makes no sense for capitalism...but, hey, maybe I'm just smoking crack.

cro maat · 09-10-2008, 12:39 AM

Good stuff written! I have been wondering what 'we the people' worldwide can do about the blatant corporate takeover of governments, finances, resources, media, and the military, and I have been frightened for awhile about the world cartel that has been monstrously growing and gobbling up everything.
I don't know about anyone else, but here in the USA, most Americans have been sleepwalking (including me) for far too long, or have been down and demoralized about the sickening situations here and abroad, and I'm not just speaking economics. Listening to news about how many other countries are having these huge economic difficulties and going bankrupt is nauseating and sad. We're watching the dominoes fall on countless levels...things are way more dire and interconnected worldwide, on so many more levels than we can know. The short term and long term ramifications of this interconnectedness are hideously chilling in many more ways than economic, unless people can and will unite to stop it. But what to do, and how to do it? Some of the responsibility, especially for energy, the environment, and consumerism, has to rest on the people. Boycotts and putting pressure on the corporations to do the will of the people is one way to get corporate attention. If nobody's buying, they do pay attention and lower prices. We don't have a manufacturing economy anymore in America. Personally, I ignore the whole consumer culture as much as possible, except of course, computing and the internet! After watching the video "the story of stuff" it is beyond sickening. I highly suggest seeing it. She does have a more upbeat section at the end on what to do.

The government and the media tell everyone to "shop shop shop" to fix the economy. That is about the WORST thing we can be doing. It will not help anything and will make us all much poorer and even more inclined to go into debt.

Economic and media control of the people is the way that a lot of the people are kept demoralized and afraid, and people's spirits kept low, desperate, traumatized, apathetic, cynical, and fatalistic. So I'm wondering a lot, every day... what can we do? What will we do? "They" are not going to do it or fix it for us IMO, not without some "help" in the way of pressure from the 95% of the rest of the people who are sick of being treated as subhuman. It seems the time is ripe for getting off our behinds and saying "NO MORE!" But that, of course, would require hard work and consciousness! Those things are not exactly encouraged or popular here in America; in fact, I believe consciousness and questioning of how things are done are now "illegal".

I wonder, especially here in the U.S, if people will rise into becoming what they can be, as people in times of crisis have it in them to do? Most of the globe has been dealing with far greater problems on whether they have the latest plasma TVs or not, so I know we can do it. Unless as a culture we are just too soft. The type of "toughness" it's going to take is to be willing to be interdependent and work together, rather than against each other. That's why, I guess, I feel such fondness for the global internet community, which I think has the greatest chance to solve the problems that face us in new and creative ways. We can't leave that to the corporations!

The problem is, it's all so big everywhere you look. And so corrupt.
I can't and won't even talk about war in this post; it's just too awful to contemplate more brutality and insanity. I am ashamed I didn't do more before. Thanks for letting me rant.

cro maat · 09-10-2008, 12:41 AM

Ya know, Big B, I like your solutions a lot! More concise and concrete than what I wrote! So how do we pressure them to do it?

cro maat · 09-10-2008, 12:46 AM

Good stuff written! I have been wondering what 'we the people' worldwide can do about the blatant corporate takeover of governments, finances, resources, media, and the military, and I have been frightened for awhile about the world cartel that has been monstrously growing and gobbling up everything.
I don't know about anyone else, but here in the USA, most Americans have been sleepwalking (including me) for far too long, or have been down and demoralized about the sickening situations here and abroad, and I'm not just speaking economics. Listening to news about how many other countries are having these huge economic difficulties and going bankrupt is nauseating and sad. We're watching the dominoes fall on countless levels...things are way more dire and interconnected worldwide, on so many more levels than we can know. The short term and long term ramifications of this interconnectedness are hideously chilling in many more ways than economic, unless people can and will unite to stop it. But what to do, and how to do it? Some of the responsibility, especially for energy, the environment, and consumerism, has to rest on the people. Boycotts and putting pressure on the corporations to do the will of the people is one way to get corporate attention. If nobody's buying, they do pay attention and lower prices. We don't have a manufacturing economy anymore in America. Personally, I ignore the whole consumer culture as much as possible, except of course, computing and the internet! After watching the video "the story of stuff" it is beyond sickening. I highly suggest seeing it. She does have a more upbeat section at the end on what to do.

The government and the media tell everyone to "shop shop shop" to fix the economy. That is about the WORST thing we can be doing. It will not help anything and will make us all much poorer and even more inclined to go into debt.

Economic and media control of the people is the way that a lot of the people are kept demoralized and afraid, and people's spirits kept low, desperate, traumatized, apathetic, cynical, and fatalistic. So I'm wondering a lot, every day... what can we do? What will we do? "They" are not going to do it or fix it for us IMO, not without some "help" in the way of pressure from the 95% of the rest of the people who are sick of being treated as subhuman. It seems the time is ripe for getting off our behinds and saying "NO MORE!" But that, of course, would require hard work and consciousness! Those things are not exactly encouraged or popular here in America; in fact, I believe consciousness and questioning of how things are done are now "illegal".

I wonder, especially here in the U.S, if people will rise into becoming what they can be, as people in times of crisis have it in them to do? Most of the globe has been dealing with far greater problems on whether they have the latest plasma TVs or not, so I know we can do it. Unless as a culture we are just too soft. The type of "toughness" it's going to take is to be willing to be interdependent and work together, rather than against each other. That's why, I guess, I feel such fondness for the global internet community, which I think has the greatest chance to solve the problems that face us in new and creative ways. We can't leave that to the corporations!

The problem is, it's all so big everywhere you look. And so corrupt.
I can't and won't even talk about war in this post; it's just too awful to contemplate more brutality and insanity. I am ashamed I didn't do more before. Thanks for letting me rant.

Pimp · 09-10-2008, 10:48 AM

Well it's pretty bad here in the UK, the governmount is bailing out the banks with a £500billion deal to stop them going bust thats around $1Trillion, more then what you guys are giving to your banks and this amount hapens to equal the total GDP of Spain lol just crazy

and guess who has to take the pain?? the Tax payer

BTW a lot of people around the world are putting the blame on the US banks for lending to sub prime markets which started this whole bank crash. o well

cro maat · 10-10-2008, 10:18 PM

That's so sad, Pimp. It really stinks! I totally agree with you that the good old U.S. of America itself (and the evil powers that want to gobble everything up) have not only taken down the U.S. with the banking and loan scam, but many other countries worldwide, in Europe (just as the Euro had had finally gotten more valuable than the dollar. Hmmm....) and beyond.

I can't help wonder what will happen to the world. I cried the other day hearing some high official from Iceland talk about how that country was bankrupt. So many innocent people and countries. I know what the motives of the evildoers are; world domination of everyone and all the resources, natural and man made. I wonder which superpowers (America or Russia) will be trying to grab the countries with the most resources now that all their economies are ruined? And you're right, it's the poor and middle class who will take the hit again. Well, the USA may no longer have a middle class soon. It's sickening.

Here in the good old land of the (sic) free and home of the lazy and the asleep, things are going from bad to worse as far as our right to free speech and free elections goes. It' likely that the election is already stolen again and we'll have an even crazier president and vp running the show as the latest corporate puppets. Then things are really going to be ugly. I hope the world court tries those damn criminals, seizes their assets, and gives them back to the people they stole it from worldwide!

I hope people rebel by disengaging with the systems who have let them down, looks like we're on our own so I hope we have learned what NOT to do and now it's time to think outside of the box and get creative with nothing. I'm lucky; I already have nothing so I won't be jumping out of any windows. I'm so steamed by the heartlessness of it all!

I'm especially crabby today since my computer got clickjacked last Sunday night and is basically slowly ruining itself. I'm bringing it to a friend's over the weekend so we can reformat it.

(Not sure if these smiley faces will work, I'm blocking lots of cookies right now just to be safe.)

Pimp · 12-10-2008, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cro maat

That's so sad, Pimp. It really stinks! I totally agree with you that the good old U.S. of America itself (and the evil powers that want to gobble everything up) have not only taken down the U.S. with the banking and loan scam, but many other countries worldwide, in Europe (just as the Euro had had finally gotten more valuable than the dollar. Hmmm....) and beyond.

I can't help wonder what will happen to the world. I cried the other day hearing some high official from Iceland talk about how that country was bankrupt. So many innocent people and countries. I know what the motives of the evildoers are; world domination of everyone and all the resources, natural and man made. I wonder which superpowers (America or Russia) will be trying to grab the countries with the most resources now that all their economies are ruined? And you're right, it's the poor and middle class who will take the hit again. Well, the USA may no longer have a middle class soon. It's sickening.

Here in the good old land of the (sic) free and home of the lazy and the asleep, things are going from bad to worse as far as our right to free speech and free elections goes. It' likely that the election is already stolen again and we'll have an even crazier president and vp running the show as the latest corporate puppets. Then things are really going to be ugly. I hope the world court tries those damn criminals, seizes their assets, and gives them back to the people they stole it from worldwide!

I hope people rebel by disengaging with the systems who have let them down, looks like we're on our own so I hope we have learned what NOT to do and now it's time to think outside of the box and get creative with nothing. I'm lucky; I already have nothing so I won't be jumping out of any windows. I'm so steamed by the heartlessness of it all!

I'm especially crabby today since my computer got clickjacked last Sunday night and is basically slowly ruining itself. I'm bringing it to a friend's over the weekend so we can reformat it.

(Not sure if these smiley faces will work, I'm blocking lots of cookies right now just to be safe.)

This is probably the first time i have seen an American actually give a dam about us Brits

so Thanks for your support lol

cro maat · 13-10-2008, 03:07 AM

Hi Pimp
Too bad this sub prime loan thing took down a lot of innocent people and countries. When people start to care about what this does worldwide to others, maybe something will get done. Wondering what Americans will do about this...mostly think of themselves I guess. It's harsh for a lot of them. Been offline for a few days, so haven't checked the latest news worldwide but I'm sure it's not good. Plus, the US media sucks. I listen to BBC when I can.

Anti-Trend · 13-10-2008, 03:16 AM

Yeah, but mainstream media sucks everywhere in the west. In the US and the UK alike. If you want a real commentary, check out The Real News

22-09-2008, 03:03 AM	#2 (permalink) Top
Big B HWF Godfather Join Date: Dec 2001 Age: 28 Male Posts: 9,636 Times Helpful: 585 My Mood: Devilish Status: Offline My Computer	Yeah, I love how we bail out companies like this. Look, if a business can't hold it up themselves, then it should be let fail, not coddled. __________________ Hardware Forums\|HWF Rules\|My DVD's\|PSU FAQ\|HWF Folding Team\|2CPU

01-10-2008, 02:01 PM	#7 (permalink) Top
Big B HWF Godfather Join Date: Dec 2001 Age: 28 Male Posts: 9,636 Times Helpful: 585 My Mood: Devilish Status: Offline My Computer	I think a few things need to happen. 1.) Government needs to GTFO. If you look back, part of this was created by the government's involvement. If that's not enough, the way things like Amtrack and the Postal Service have been handled should tell you all you need to know about how well the government does at running business. They suck because they can always tax or print more money. Real businesses can't make money grow on trees. 2.) Those who are involved with screwing this up on purpose by design or ignorance need to be prosecuted. I am looking at you Sen. Dodd and your buds. I'm also looking at the CEO's and others that have tanked these businesses. 3.) The companies need to self regulate. As stated before, I'm not in favor of the government getting involved in running a business. It hasn't worked before, and it's not going to work now. One thing that should be implemented by the companies is to have a negative consequence for CEO's and others that foul up. Look, if someone's driving your company into the ground, why would you ever want to send them off with a fat retirement package? Makes no sense for capitalism...but, hey, maybe I'm just smoking crack. __________________ Hardware Forums\|HWF Rules\|My DVD's\|PSU FAQ\|HWF Folding Team\|2CPU

09-10-2008, 10:48 AM	#11 (permalink) Top
Pimp Captain of USS Defiant Join Date: Nov 2007 Age: 22 Male Posts: 877 Times Helpful: 28 My Mood: Dangerous Status: Offline My Computer	Well it's pretty bad here in the UK, the governmount is bailing out the banks with a £500billion deal to stop them going bust thats around $1Trillion, more then what you guys are giving to your banks and this amount hapens to equal the total GDP of Spain lol just crazy and guess who has to take the pain?? the Tax payer BTW a lot of people around the world are putting the blame on the US banks for lending to sub prime markets which started this whole bank crash. o well __________________ "Space has no boundary, that is empirically more certain than any external observation. However, that does not imply that space is infinite" - Bernhard Riemann

13-10-2008, 03:16 AM	#15 (permalink) Top
Anti-Trend Nonconformist Geek Join Date: Oct 2003 Age: 27 Male Posts: 4,880 Times Helpful: 537 Status: Offline My Computer	Yeah, but mainstream media sucks everywhere in the west. In the US and the UK alike. If you want a real commentary, check out The Real News __________________ See My Desktop \| Try Linux \| Install Linux \| Visit My Server \| Support Hardware Forums \| Easily rip DVDs in Linux \| Remember Everything

09-10-2008, 12:39 AM	#8 (permalink) Top
cro maat Geek Trainee Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 8 My Mood: Amazed Status: Offline	Good stuff written! I have been wondering what 'we the people' worldwide can do about the blatant corporate takeover of governments, finances, resources, media, and the military, and I have been frightened for awhile about the world cartel that has been monstrously growing and gobbling up everything. I don't know about anyone else, but here in the USA, most Americans have been sleepwalking (including me) for far too long, or have been down and demoralized about the sickening situations here and abroad, and I'm not just speaking economics. Listening to news about how many other countries are having these huge economic difficulties and going bankrupt is nauseating and sad. We're watching the dominoes fall on countless levels...things are way more dire and interconnected worldwide, on so many more levels than we can know. The short term and long term ramifications of this interconnectedness are hideously chilling in many more ways than economic, unless people can and will unite to stop it. But what to do, and how to do it? Some of the responsibility, especially for energy, the environment, and consumerism, has to rest on the people. Boycotts and putting pressure on the corporations to do the will of the people is one way to get corporate attention. If nobody's buying, they do pay attention and lower prices. We don't have a manufacturing economy anymore in America. Personally, I ignore the whole consumer culture as much as possible, except of course, computing and the internet! After watching the video "the story of stuff" it is beyond sickening. I highly suggest seeing it. She does have a more upbeat section at the end on what to do. The government and the media tell everyone to "shop shop shop" to fix the economy. That is about the WORST thing we can be doing. It will not help anything and will make us all much poorer and even more inclined to go into debt. Economic and media control of the people is the way that a lot of the people are kept demoralized and afraid, and people's spirits kept low, desperate, traumatized, apathetic, cynical, and fatalistic. So I'm wondering a lot, every day... what can we do? What will we do? "They" are not going to do it or fix it for us IMO, not without some "help" in the way of pressure from the 95% of the rest of the people who are sick of being treated as subhuman. It seems the time is ripe for getting off our behinds and saying "NO MORE!" But that, of course, would require hard work and consciousness! Those things are not exactly encouraged or popular here in America; in fact, I believe consciousness and questioning of how things are done are now "illegal". I wonder, especially here in the U.S, if people will rise into becoming what they can be, as people in times of crisis have it in them to do? Most of the globe has been dealing with far greater problems on whether they have the latest plasma TVs or not, so I know we can do it. Unless as a culture we are just too soft. The type of "toughness" it's going to take is to be willing to be interdependent and work together, rather than against each other. That's why, I guess, I feel such fondness for the global internet community, which I think has the greatest chance to solve the problems that face us in new and creative ways. We can't leave that to the corporations! The problem is, it's all so big everywhere you look. And so corrupt. I can't and won't even talk about war in this post; it's just too awful to contemplate more brutality and insanity. I am ashamed I didn't do more before. Thanks for letting me rant.

09-10-2008, 12:41 AM	#9 (permalink) Top
cro maat Geek Trainee Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 8 My Mood: Amazed Status: Offline	Ya know, Big B, I like your solutions a lot! More concise and concrete than what I wrote! So how do we pressure them to do it?

09-10-2008, 12:46 AM	#10 (permalink) Top
cro maat Geek Trainee Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 8 My Mood: Amazed Status: Offline	Good stuff written! I have been wondering what 'we the people' worldwide can do about the blatant corporate takeover of governments, finances, resources, media, and the military, and I have been frightened for awhile about the world cartel that has been monstrously growing and gobbling up everything. I don't know about anyone else, but here in the USA, most Americans have been sleepwalking (including me) for far too long, or have been down and demoralized about the sickening situations here and abroad, and I'm not just speaking economics. Listening to news about how many other countries are having these huge economic difficulties and going bankrupt is nauseating and sad. We're watching the dominoes fall on countless levels...things are way more dire and interconnected worldwide, on so many more levels than we can know. The short term and long term ramifications of this interconnectedness are hideously chilling in many more ways than economic, unless people can and will unite to stop it. But what to do, and how to do it? Some of the responsibility, especially for energy, the environment, and consumerism, has to rest on the people. Boycotts and putting pressure on the corporations to do the will of the people is one way to get corporate attention. If nobody's buying, they do pay attention and lower prices. We don't have a manufacturing economy anymore in America. Personally, I ignore the whole consumer culture as much as possible, except of course, computing and the internet! After watching the video "the story of stuff" it is beyond sickening. I highly suggest seeing it. She does have a more upbeat section at the end on what to do. The government and the media tell everyone to "shop shop shop" to fix the economy. That is about the WORST thing we can be doing. It will not help anything and will make us all much poorer and even more inclined to go into debt. Economic and media control of the people is the way that a lot of the people are kept demoralized and afraid, and people's spirits kept low, desperate, traumatized, apathetic, cynical, and fatalistic. So I'm wondering a lot, every day... what can we do? What will we do? "They" are not going to do it or fix it for us IMO, not without some "help" in the way of pressure from the 95% of the rest of the people who are sick of being treated as subhuman. It seems the time is ripe for getting off our behinds and saying "NO MORE!" But that, of course, would require hard work and consciousness! Those things are not exactly encouraged or popular here in America; in fact, I believe consciousness and questioning of how things are done are now "illegal". I wonder, especially here in the U.S, if people will rise into becoming what they can be, as people in times of crisis have it in them to do? Most of the globe has been dealing with far greater problems on whether they have the latest plasma TVs or not, so I know we can do it. Unless as a culture we are just too soft. The type of "toughness" it's going to take is to be willing to be interdependent and work together, rather than against each other. That's why, I guess, I feel such fondness for the global internet community, which I think has the greatest chance to solve the problems that face us in new and creative ways. We can't leave that to the corporations! The problem is, it's all so big everywhere you look. And so corrupt. I can't and won't even talk about war in this post; it's just too awful to contemplate more brutality and insanity. I am ashamed I didn't do more before. Thanks for letting me rant.

10-10-2008, 10:18 PM	#12 (permalink) Top
cro maat Geek Trainee Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 8 My Mood: Amazed Status: Offline	That's so sad, Pimp. It really stinks! I totally agree with you that the good old U.S. of America itself (and the evil powers that want to gobble everything up) have not only taken down the U.S. with the banking and loan scam, but many other countries worldwide, in Europe (just as the Euro had had finally gotten more valuable than the dollar. Hmmm....) and beyond. I can't help wonder what will happen to the world. I cried the other day hearing some high official from Iceland talk about how that country was bankrupt. So many innocent people and countries. I know what the motives of the evildoers are; world domination of everyone and all the resources, natural and man made. I wonder which superpowers (America or Russia) will be trying to grab the countries with the most resources now that all their economies are ruined? And you're right, it's the poor and middle class who will take the hit again. Well, the USA may no longer have a middle class soon. It's sickening. Here in the good old land of the (sic) free and home of the lazy and the asleep, things are going from bad to worse as far as our right to free speech and free elections goes. It' likely that the election is already stolen again and we'll have an even crazier president and vp running the show as the latest corporate puppets. Then things are really going to be ugly. I hope the world court tries those damn criminals, seizes their assets, and gives them back to the people they stole it from worldwide! I hope people rebel by disengaging with the systems who have let them down, looks like we're on our own so I hope we have learned what NOT to do and now it's time to think outside of the box and get creative with nothing. I'm lucky; I already have nothing so I won't be jumping out of any windows. I'm so steamed by the heartlessness of it all! I'm especially crabby today since my computer got clickjacked last Sunday night and is basically slowly ruining itself. I'm bringing it to a friend's over the weekend so we can reformat it. (Not sure if these smiley faces will work, I'm blocking lots of cookies right now just to be safe.)

13-10-2008, 03:07 AM	#14 (permalink) Top
cro maat Geek Trainee Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 8 My Mood: Amazed Status: Offline	Hi Pimp Too bad this sub prime loan thing took down a lot of innocent people and countries. When people start to care about what this does worldwide to others, maybe something will get done. Wondering what Americans will do about this...mostly think of themselves I guess. It's harsh for a lot of them. Been offline for a few days, so haven't checked the latest news worldwide but I'm sure it's not good. Plus, the US media sucks. I listen to BBC when I can.

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