Want to build a server <$400.

ninja fetus · 24-09-2004, 06:07 AM

Yeah Big B is right, there should be a floppy disk in a paper sleeve labeled "RAID DRIVERS" or something around that. Yes, you can enable/disable it in BIOS, good luck!

Anti-Trend · 24-09-2004, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenn69

I'm back, and I will take you up on your offer for further assistance. I am completely confused about this whole Linux / SATA / RAID issue. I want to use debian sarge linux. I currently have the mobo that you suggested (MSI KT6V ) and I have 2 IDE drives. Well upon reading the mobo manual, I discovered that RAID is only supported by SATA. Now, how do I know if linux will support the SATA? I would like to figure this out before I exchange my IDE drives for the SATA. Also, is RAID a BIOS issue or do I have to make sure my OS supports it too?

I hope I am not crossing the lines of the purpose of this forum, it's just that I have gotten good advice up to this point and my question is hardware related.

Thanks again.

Linux will definitely support your SATA controller no problem. With a 2.6 or newer kernel, you don't even need the floppy. Either you can make a software RAID using Linux's RAID tools, which supports RAID 1-5, or you can trade in your IDE drives for SATA ones, and use your VIA southbridge as a RAID 1 controller.

If you go with the software RAID, you do have more flexibility, and can set the OS to report to you if there's a problem with your RAID. However, as B already pointed out, there's a performance hit to your CPU since there's no hardware RAID controller. I'd also like to point out though that since Linux's RAID functionality is so good, the performance hit is literally undetectable on a modern system. The only real downside is that if you've never set up a RAID before in Linux, you're going to be reading some walkthroughs...

Really though, it's not that hard, so this is still a viable option.

Alternately, should you trade in your PATA drives for SATA ones, you can simply setup a hardware RAID in the southbridge's BIOS. The plus side is that there's zero hit to your CPU, and it'll be a more straight-forward setup. The down side is that you'll have no flexibility to grow and add more harddrives, or convert to a RAID 5 in the future, since it's a hardware limitation. Also, you'll receive no reports of problems with the RAID until a drive physically dies, since the OS will only see one logical drive, not two.

If it was me in your Doc Martins, I'd trade the IDE drives out for SATA ones either way, since SATA is much better for RAID than PATA in many respects. Then, I'd set up a RAID-1 in hardware using the VIA southbridge, then Install/setup Linux. After a while, if your needs (and your budget) have grown to the point where you need more space and performance, you could always add a Promise FastTrack SATA controller (about $60), and another 3+ harddrives. Then you could set up the new drives in a RAID-5, move your data over from the RAID-1 and still have your existing OS running from the hardware RAID! Best of both worlds. And as you expand, you can always add more drives to a Linux RAID, it's really easy.

All the best,
-AT

Anti-Trend · 24-09-2004, 06:23 AM

P.S. - If you haven't already got a good server chassis, here's a good one for a good price (pictured below). It has plenty of room for HDDs (all cooled!), sharp looks and great airflow.

Also, if you're going to do a hardware RAID using the VIA southbridge, it'd be wise to add at least passive cooling to that chip. Hardware RAID will warm it up quite a bit, and you know how important stability is in a server.

ninja fetus · 24-09-2004, 07:06 AM

The one Anti-Trend is a pretty good case, but if your on a pretty tight budget and cant afford that,

`MGE ECO M1 Black ATX Mid Tower Case With 350W Power Supply, Model "CAECO-M1-BK" -RETAIL 26 dollars!

`I'tll do, but you will be using RAID, the hard drives will heat up, causing you to need a few fans. Enermax Adjustable Speed Blue 80mm Case fan, Model "UC-8FAB-B" -RETAIL
VERY good fans, and only 5 dollars each. You should get 3, atleast, two in front, one in back, but Four would be better. I would recommend getting four.

`Chipset cooling: Zalman Northbridge The stock northbridge heatsink tends to get warm, I have the same motherboard and I dont put too much stress on it. At only 5 dollars, good buy!

`Or you could get a full KIT to do it, adhesives (you need adhesive for your southbridge anyways) thermal paste(you need that for your northbridge heatsink anyways) and a heatsink! Zalman NB HS KIT Just 7 bucks! The choice is yours

`Since the southbridge has NO MOUNTING HOLES, you will need to get some thermal adhesive!

`That's IF you can find a heatsink for it, you cant glue on your old northbridge heatsink for there is junk in the way!

Take care

glenn69 · 25-09-2004, 05:32 PM

Thanks again everyone. I new I came to the right place. I will be returning the IDE drives for 2 SATA drives by Seagate.

Now I have a question about my mobo.

1) The manual reads "Please note that the AGP slot does not support 3.3V AGP card. Use of 3.3V AGP cards may result in a failure to restart the syatem." I have a used Radeon 7500. I'm not sure if I can use that card. The site states that it is 3.3V and 1.5V ??? http://www.ati.com/products/radeon75...500/specs.html

Thank You

Big B · 25-09-2004, 06:35 PM

The card is backwards compatible with AGP 2x, which uses a 3.3V signaling voltage. AGP 4x uses a 1.5V signaling voltage, and AGP 8x 0.8V. Most AGP 4x cards are able to work in AGP 2x slots, and pretty much every AGP 8x card is able to work in an AGP 4x slot.

That card will be fine, although ATi's Linux drivers aren't nearly as impressive as nVidia's, but I think that's more of an issue if you'd be gaming.

Anti-Trend · 25-09-2004, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big B

...That card will be fine, although ATi's Linux drivers aren't nearly as impressive as nVidia's, but I think that's more of an issue if you'd be gaming.

You're absolutely right, B. as a matter of fact, you really should run just a plain VESA video driver on a server, for stability's sake. You're probably not going to use a GUI much, if at all, on a server anyway. Even if you do, you won't need HW-accellerated transitional affects, alpha-blending (shadows), etc. You really shouldn't have too much trouble there.

-AT

glenn69 · 27-09-2004, 01:20 AM

I agree that the card is not necessary, however I had it from an old PC which makes it a FREE video card. Will it be that big of a deal with performance if I do not utilize any of its capabilities?

Also, in the mobo manual (MSI Kt6V ) there is a memory speed / CPU FSB support matrix. Th manual reads "The hardware configuration for CPU clock frequency of the motherboard is set to 100MHz by default. Therefore, to make a 133MHz CPU run at 133MHz when it is installed on the board, you have to adjust the CPU clock frequency in the BIOS setup utility."
Then when I follow the matrix from DDR400 (I believe that's what I have PC3200) down it reads 100MHz - NO, 133MHz - YES, 166MHz - YES, and 200 MHz - YES. That's as far as the table goes. Do I have to make a BIOS setup change? If so, is it necessary, or is it an overclocking thing? Finally, if I do make the change, will it cause the heat to increase on the CPU?

Thanks again, you guys are great.

Anti-Trend · 27-09-2004, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenn69

...Will it be that big of a deal with performance if I do not utilize any of its capabilities?

In a word: nope

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenn69

Also, in the mobo manual (MSI Kt6V ) there is a memory speed / CPU FSB support matrix. Th manual reads "The hardware configuration for CPU clock frequency of the motherboard is set to 100MHz by default. Therefore, to make a 133MHz CPU run at 133MHz when it is installed on the board, you have to adjust the CPU clock frequency in the BIOS setup utility."
Then when I follow the matrix from DDR400 (I believe that's what I have PC3200) down it reads 100MHz - NO, 133MHz - YES, 166MHz - YES, and 200 MHz - YES. That's as far as the table goes. Do I have to make a BIOS setup change? If so, is it necessary, or is it an overclocking thing? Finally, if I do make the change, will it cause the heat to increase on the CPU?

Well glenn69, your FSB/RAM at 200MHz is in actually 400Mhz, since it's DDR (double data rate). So, shouldn't be a problem there!

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenn69

Thanks again, you guys are great.

Aww, you flatter us. :o We're glad to help.

You know where to find us...
-AT

ninja fetus · 27-09-2004, 01:51 AM

`Your going to have to change the ram speeds to 200mhz, or DDR400. You SHOULD change them to 166mhz, and have your cpu FSB at 166mhz, so the speeds are synch'ed, or the ratio of dran/cpu timings are 1:1

setting the FSB for the cpu at 166mhz is the default speed for amd athlon cpu's. It will have no heat increase!

Performance will not be affected by a video card!

Anti-Trend · 27-09-2004, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninja fetus

`Your going to have to change the ram speeds to 200mhz, or DDR400. You SHOULD change them to 166mhz, and have your cpu FSB at 166mhz, so the speeds are synch'ed, or the ratio of dran/cpu timings are 1:1

setting the FSB for the cpu at 166mhz is the default speed for amd athlon cpu's. It will have no heat increase!

Performance will not be affected by a video card!

The Fetus is right on every count. Unless you also plan on running the FSB@400MHz, I'd run the RAM at 166MHz (333MHz) so it matches up, clock for clock. ...that is, assuming your CPU supports a 333MHz FSB. What type of CPU do you have?

glenn69 · 27-09-2004, 03:29 AM

I pretty much went with all your recommendations :
Motherboard: MSI KT6V-LSR, KT600 w LAN, SATA RAID -- $55.00
CPU: Athlon XP2600 Retail (includes CPU heatsink, warranty from AMD) -- $97.00
RAM: Kingston Value Series 512MB PC3200 --$79.00
Hard Drives: Seagate 80GB, 8MB cache x2 ($72.75 ea.) -- $145.50
Case w Power supply: Antec SLK3700AMB w 350W power supply (Antec SL350S): --$65.00

The CPU is FSB 333, 512Cache 2600 AMD XP Barton to be more precise.

I'm a bit confused...each time you all refer to 400 you have (200 listed also) and when you refer to 333 you show (166)...why?
"Unless you also plan on running the FSB@400MHz, I'd run the RAM at 166MHz (333MHz) so it matches up, clock for clock. ...that is, assuming your CPU supports a 333MHz FSB"
and
"`Your going to have to change the ram speeds to 200mhz, or DDR400. You SHOULD change them to 166mhz, and have your cpu FSB at 166mhz, so the speeds are synch'ed, or the ratio of dran/cpu timings are 1:1"

Anti-Trend · 27-09-2004, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenn69

The CPU is FSB 333, 512Cache 2600 AMD XP Barton to be more precise.

I'm a bit confused...each time you all refer to 400 you have (200 listed also) and when you refer to 333 you show (166)...why?

Nice system configuration, that should serve you well! You may need to upgrade the PSU eventually, but for now it should be adequate. As for your question, the clocks on the FSB and RAM are actually doubled, because they are a dual-access buss. So a 166MHz FSB in your BIOS will have the system running at an effective speed of 333MHz (166Mhz x2 channels = ~333MHz). You'll want your FSB/RAM set at 166MHz in the BIOS, since you have a CPU with a 333MHz FSB.

-AT

Big B · 27-09-2004, 12:47 PM

Yup. Don't worry about it being a little confusing, as it throws a lot of people for a loop.

glenn69 · 27-09-2004, 02:41 PM

In BIOS page Frequency/Voltage control - The option to change is CPU FSB clock. is that the same thing as FSB/RAM ? "You'll want your FSB/RAM set at 166MHz in the BIOS, since you have a CPU with a 333MHz FSB."

24-09-2004, 06:23 AM	#18 (permalink) Top
Anti-Trend Nonconformist Geek Join Date: Oct 2003 Age: 27 Male Posts: 4,879 Times Helpful: 535 Status: Offline My Computer	P.S. - If you haven't already got a good server chassis, here's a good one for a good price (pictured below). It has plenty of room for HDDs (all cooled!), sharp looks and great airflow. Also, if you're going to do a hardware RAID using the VIA southbridge, it'd be wise to add at least passive cooling to that chip. Hardware RAID will warm it up quite a bit, and you know how important stability is in a server. Attached Thumbnails __________________ See My Desktop \| Try Linux \| Install Linux \| Visit My Server \| Support Hardware Forums \| Easily rip DVDs in Linux \| Remember Everything

24-09-2004, 07:06 AM	#19 (permalink) Top
ninja fetus I'm a thugged out gangsta Join Date: Mar 2004 Age: 18 Male Posts: 3,525 Times Helpful: 70 Status: Offline My Computer	The one Anti-Trend is a pretty good case, but if your on a pretty tight budget and cant afford that, `MGE ECO M1 Black ATX Mid Tower Case With 350W Power Supply, Model "CAECO-M1-BK" -RETAIL 26 dollars! `I'tll do, but you will be using RAID, the hard drives will heat up, causing you to need a few fans. Enermax Adjustable Speed Blue 80mm Case fan, Model "UC-8FAB-B" -RETAIL VERY good fans, and only 5 dollars each. You should get 3, atleast, two in front, one in back, but Four would be better. I would recommend getting four. `Chipset cooling: Zalman Northbridge The stock northbridge heatsink tends to get warm, I have the same motherboard and I dont put too much stress on it. At only 5 dollars, good buy! `Or you could get a full KIT to do it, adhesives (you need adhesive for your southbridge anyways) thermal paste(you need that for your northbridge heatsink anyways) and a heatsink! Zalman NB HS KIT Just 7 bucks! The choice is yours `Since the southbridge has NO MOUNTING HOLES, you will need to get some thermal adhesive! `That's IF you can find a heatsink for it, you cant glue on your old northbridge heatsink for there is junk in the way! Take care Last edited by ninja fetus; 24-09-2004 at 07:10 AM.

25-09-2004, 06:35 PM	#21 (permalink) Top
Big B HWF Godfather Join Date: Dec 2001 Age: 28 Male Posts: 9,636 Times Helpful: 585 My Mood: Devilish Status: Offline My Computer	The card is backwards compatible with AGP 2x, which uses a 3.3V signaling voltage. AGP 4x uses a 1.5V signaling voltage, and AGP 8x 0.8V. Most AGP 4x cards are able to work in AGP 2x slots, and pretty much every AGP 8x card is able to work in an AGP 4x slot. That card will be fine, although ATi's Linux drivers aren't nearly as impressive as nVidia's, but I think that's more of an issue if you'd be gaming. __________________ Hardware Forums\|HWF Rules\|My DVD's\|PSU FAQ\|HWF Folding Team\|2CPU

27-09-2004, 12:47 PM	#29 (permalink) Top
Big B HWF Godfather Join Date: Dec 2001 Age: 28 Male Posts: 9,636 Times Helpful: 585 My Mood: Devilish Status: Offline My Computer	Yup. Don't worry about it being a little confusing, as it throws a lot of people for a loop. __________________ Hardware Forums\|HWF Rules\|My DVD's\|PSU FAQ\|HWF Folding Team\|2CPU

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Windows Small Business Server 2003 and Windows Server 2003 SP1 Known Issues	syngod	Windows OS's	16	08-04-2005 02:56 AM
help with new build	scooter	CPU, Motherboards and Memory	3	25-02-2005 11:36 PM
build a PC	IT_Monster	General Hardware	9	23-01-2005 09:21 AM
1st build	shade46	New Build / Upgrade Advice	26	29-11-2004 07:12 PM
New Build with thanks to all	moonstone-7	New Build / Upgrade Advice	15	15-11-2004 07:10 PM

24-09-2004, 06:07 AM	#16 (permalink) Top
ninja fetus I'm a thugged out gangsta Join Date: Mar 2004 Age: 18 Male Posts: 3,525 Times Helpful: 70 Status: Offline My Computer	Yeah Big B is right, there should be a floppy disk in a paper sleeve labeled "RAID DRIVERS" or something around that. Yes, you can enable/disable it in BIOS, good luck!

25-09-2004, 05:32 PM	#20 (permalink) Top
glenn69 Geek Trainee Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 15 Status: Offline	Thanks again everyone. I new I came to the right place. I will be returning the IDE drives for 2 SATA drives by Seagate. Now I have a question about my mobo. 1) The manual reads "Please note that the AGP slot does not support 3.3V AGP card. Use of 3.3V AGP cards may result in a failure to restart the syatem." I have a used Radeon 7500. I'm not sure if I can use that card. The site states that it is 3.3V and 1.5V ??? http://www.ati.com/products/radeon75...500/specs.html Thank You

27-09-2004, 01:20 AM	#23 (permalink) Top
glenn69 Geek Trainee Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 15 Status: Offline	I agree that the card is not necessary, however I had it from an old PC which makes it a FREE video card. Will it be that big of a deal with performance if I do not utilize any of its capabilities? Also, in the mobo manual (MSI Kt6V ) there is a memory speed / CPU FSB support matrix. Th manual reads "The hardware configuration for CPU clock frequency of the motherboard is set to 100MHz by default. Therefore, to make a 133MHz CPU run at 133MHz when it is installed on the board, you have to adjust the CPU clock frequency in the BIOS setup utility." Then when I follow the matrix from DDR400 (I believe that's what I have PC3200) down it reads 100MHz - NO, 133MHz - YES, 166MHz - YES, and 200 MHz - YES. That's as far as the table goes. Do I have to make a BIOS setup change? If so, is it necessary, or is it an overclocking thing? Finally, if I do make the change, will it cause the heat to increase on the CPU? Thanks again, you guys are great.

27-09-2004, 01:51 AM	#25 (permalink) Top
ninja fetus I'm a thugged out gangsta Join Date: Mar 2004 Age: 18 Male Posts: 3,525 Times Helpful: 70 Status: Offline My Computer	`Your going to have to change the ram speeds to 200mhz, or DDR400. You SHOULD change them to 166mhz, and have your cpu FSB at 166mhz, so the speeds are synch'ed, or the ratio of dran/cpu timings are 1:1 setting the FSB for the cpu at 166mhz is the default speed for amd athlon cpu's. It will have no heat increase! Performance will not be affected by a video card!

27-09-2004, 03:29 AM	#27 (permalink) Top
glenn69 Geek Trainee Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 15 Status: Offline	I pretty much went with all your recommendations : Motherboard: MSI KT6V-LSR, KT600 w LAN, SATA RAID -- $55.00 CPU: Athlon XP2600 Retail (includes CPU heatsink, warranty from AMD) -- $97.00 RAM: Kingston Value Series 512MB PC3200 --$79.00 Hard Drives: Seagate 80GB, 8MB cache x2 ($72.75 ea.) -- $145.50 Case w Power supply: Antec SLK3700AMB w 350W power supply (Antec SL350S): --$65.00 The CPU is FSB 333, 512Cache 2600 AMD XP Barton to be more precise. I'm a bit confused...each time you all refer to 400 you have (200 listed also) and when you refer to 333 you show (166)...why? "Unless you also plan on running the FSB@400MHz, I'd run the RAM at 166MHz (333MHz) so it matches up, clock for clock. ...that is, assuming your CPU supports a 333MHz FSB" and "`Your going to have to change the ram speeds to 200mhz, or DDR400. You SHOULD change them to 166mhz, and have your cpu FSB at 166mhz, so the speeds are synch'ed, or the ratio of dran/cpu timings are 1:1"

27-09-2004, 02:41 PM	#30 (permalink) Top
glenn69 Geek Trainee Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 15 Status: Offline	In BIOS page Frequency/Voltage control - The option to change is CPU FSB clock. is that the same thing as FSB/RAM ? "You'll want your FSB/RAM set at 166MHz in the BIOS, since you have a CPU with a 333MHz FSB."

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)