Freezing/Crashing: Looking for ideas.

[Parachutes]

Hey everyone,

I have an older AMD Athlon 2500+ Barton on a Abit NF7-S v2.0 mobo (latest BIOS, can’t remember the version number though) that keeps on giving me problems with locking-up / freezing / crashing (bluescreen for a few seconds, then reboot).

I originally thought it was problems with my IDE controler, because the first signs of any problem was back 4 months when the computer would freeze at BIOS, while checking for the boot device in one of my optical drives (nothing was in the drive ever, on boot).

I read up on IDE settings and the use of a SATA drive as the OS drive/boot device, with an IDE hdd as the secondary storage device with Windows XP. Apparently XP doesn’t like that. So I pulled out all IDE devices except for my Sony DVD±RW that is on IDE controler 1 as primary.

I then proceeded to download the SATA controler drivers for my mobo and put them on a diskette. I formatted my SATA drive, re-installed a fresh copy of Windows XP Professional and loaded the drivers for the SATA controler on at install. Everything worked fine. I then downloaded my chipset / graphics / mobo devices drivers from my mobo manufacturer and installed the most recent ones from Abit. I upgraded to Win XP SP2 and downloaded all critical updates. I have the latest Catalyst drivers for my X800 and I have the SoundBlaster drivers installed correctly.

Now, in my head, this sound be a stable working system. I then installed Steam (CS:Source and CS1.6), BF2 and World of Warcraft. When I run BF2 or WoW for more than a few seconds (BF2 won’t even get past the EA games logo sometimes), the game freezes and becomes choppy, as if you were experiencing severe lag in an online game. Sound and graphics. At this point, my hard drive starts making loud crunching noises, when it freezes.

I assume my hard drive is toast, so I download the Samsung drive utility and run the tests. The utilities tell me the drive is fine, so I’m a bit confused. I know that when I run CS:Source, it may work fine for a bit, but eventually starts to do the same thing. CS1.6 doesn’t usually give me problems.

I downloaded some graphic card stress test (can’t name the app right now, I’m not around that computer) and benchmarking program. The stress test caused the same freezing / noises, but only for a while and then it stopped. The benchmark didn’t cause it.

I ran Prime95 and memtest86, stress tests. My CPU seems fine (albeit it’s old and slow) and my memory is fine as well, though it seems like my pagefiles are constantly getting used with only 512 MB of ram, so I don’t know if maybe all this drive activity has caused bad sectors on my drive or something.

Note: I can use that PC to do mundane tasks and use programs for watching videos / movies or listening to music. It just seems to be ressource demanding programs (i.e.: games) that cause this problem.

I’m starting to run out of ideas here. I’m about to replace my hard drive, because I think that is where the problems lies, but I’d like some advice before I spend another $100 bucks on a drive when this one is less than 8 months old (hopefully Samsung will replace). Any tips or things you can think that I missed would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your time and effort,

Included my Speedfan screen shot on system idle for additional scrutinization:

[thomas234]

Ok, Looking at that screenshot, temperature 2 looks very high, which I presume if it only happens when you run graphic intensive programmes, is your graphics card overheating. Make sure the fan on it is working and your case has proper ventilation.

[Parachutes]

[QUOTE=thomas234]
Ok, Looking at that screenshot, temperature 2 looks very high, which I presume if it only happens when you run graphic intensive programmes, is your graphics card overheating. Make sure the fan on it is working and your case has proper ventilation.
[/QUOTE]

No, that was taken after a cold boot, with nothing else running. I’m not really even sure what device/location those temperatures reflect, to be completely honest.

I did notice, however, when running BF2, my HD0 temp jumps up past 52 C and the icon lights up on fire. I’m assuming this is bad.

I don’t know much about power supplies and the acceptable margins for it’s output rails, but those values for my +12V and -12V seem pretty low. Anyone know if that’s worth looking into or are they at acceptable values?

[sabashuali]

It sounds like two options:
HDD faliure or (more likely, I think…) heat related.

From SpeedFan site - users ready made configuration for your board:

[QUOTE=SpeedFan site]
Enter SpeedFan, then go to the INFO tab, press GET CONFIG and enter 134638 when queried for the ticket number. You can do this from this computer for 30 minutes starting from now. If you have any problem you can repeat this procedure as many times as you need.
[/QUOTE]

Try this and see what readings you are getting then.
Post back…

Good luck

[Parachutes]

[QUOTE=sabashuali]
It sounds like two options:
HDD faliure or (more likely, I think…) heat related.

From SpeedFan site - users ready made configuration for your board:

Try this and see what readings you are getting then.
Post back…

Good luck
[/QUOTE]

That SpeedFan config didn’t work for me, because my IP is different from yours. I registered and found myself the NFS-7 config and plugged it in to SpeedFan.

I took a couple of screen shots, the first being the before (idle system) and after (during stress test):

Notice that my hard drive temp (HD0) reads 0 degrees Centigrad when the system starts freezing and making drive noises. I also noticed that my voltages on the -+12V (both) drop to 10V around the same time that the system starts freezing and going choppy, followed by the drive noises (I didn’t manage to get the screenshot of that reading though).

Is this possibly a combination of overheating components (case temp too hot, probably need a good case fan) and faulty power supply? The values with this new SpeedFan config seem to be sketchy (HD0 reads zero?) compared to the apps default config values I posted originally.

What do you think?

[Sniper]

the HDD temp seem very high during load, I think this could be a big problem! I would suggest you backup of your important data as you can never predict when the hard drive may stop working.

In speedfan click on the smart tab and then select the HDD and click on perform online analysis, it should tell you the max temp the HDD should have, as well as the minimum and the avg temp other users have.

I found when my HDD (samsung) went over the max temp of 44 C it would restart randomly. So I would suggest getting a cooler the HDD.

[Parachutes]

[QUOTE=Sniper]
[…]I found when my HDD (samsung) went over the max temp of 44 C it would restart randomly. So I would suggest getting a cooler the HDD.
[/QUOTE]

Cooler for the HDD? Do you mean cooling down the temp of the drive by bringing down the internal case temp or is there such thing as a cooling device for hard drives?

[system]

a cooling device for hard drives?

yes

[Sniper]

yes and there are plenty about e.g. Canada Hard Drive Coolers, Hard Drives Cooling Fans at TigerDirect.ca

[Parachutes]

Wow, I have never seen one of those before.

Learn something every day.

What about those rails from my PSU, do they look worrisome?

[sabashuali]

What will look worrisome is if your PSU is generic.
If you are serious about keeping your rig safe and stable, do not overlook this “small” detail. Personally I have no ideas what these readings mean.
All I know is that my generic PSU, which by the way can cause all sorts of weird and wonderful symptoms, blew up and took my mobo with it.
After that, I changed to Enermax. Cost me a bundle but is worth it.

By the sounds of it your HDD does not look too good.
HDD’s even when working hard, unless cooped-up in a sealed can, should not get as hot as to malfunction.
Another point is that even if your HDD has been read by speedfan, there is no guarantee that the temp can be read as well.

You will need to look at your overall cooling solutions. Your CPU stock cooler can do the job but you must have at least one more fan to suck air out.
Otherwise, your CPU cooler is just churning hot air to start with. If you have a powerful G card with just a heatsink, conceder actively cooling it.
Instead of getting a designated HDD cooler you can just position an extra fan to blow over the HDD cage.

All in all, you might have a bit of a “brew” of different problems. IMO, apart from the HDD which sounds bad the rest sound like heat related.

[Parachutes]

Alright, thanks for the ideas guys.

I had planned to go and get a case fan, because even I realized that it’s kind of a big folly to be relying on solely the CPU fan for cooling. Only laziness, lack of will to spend cash and the fact that I hadn’t had any problems up until now, stopped me from actually getting one.

I had considered sending my HDD away, as it’s still under waranty, but I rather try to eliminate all other problems first, because I’ve only had the drive for less than 8 months and I’ve ran a few drive checking utilities without finding any problem with it (yet).

Come to think about, overheating would make sense, because it seems when I bring my rig over to my buddies place for a LAN, we usually set up in his basement, where it is cold as old hell. I never noticed having any problems freezing or crashing when I was at his place, but there would be problems at home, right before or after the LAN. I just never really put together why that was, I attributed it to ridiculously good luck.

I’ll post back what my situation is once I install some cooling in my case.

[Parachutes]

I installed a 120mm fan in the rear of my case, to remove the hot air from inside the case and I’m already noticing a HUGE difference in performance. I won’t say my problem is resolved yet, because it needs further testing, but I think you were all bang on about the temperature. I’m going to get a 90mm fan for the front of my case, to feed air into the case, once I figure out where the mountings are on this Antec case.

Thanks for all the help!

[sabashuali]

[QUOTE=Parachutes]
once I figure out where the mountings are on this Antec case.
[/QUOTE]

The front intake fan space is normaly located behind the front facia, infront of the HDD cage. That way the air coming in can cool the HDD on its way in.
You will probably have to detach the front facia, and then attach the fan screwing the screws from within the case. Or vica versa.

Glad you are getting some results.