Building a new PC...group effort! =)

S

SirDeity

Big Geek
I just recently lost my computer due to everheating. It only lasted me 3 years. I spent between 3-4 thousand dollars on it. I made the mistake of purchasing it from Circuit City. It was an HP...

Here are some system specs on my recently lost HP computer:
- 1Ghz Athlon AMD processor
- 40GB Hard Drive(IDE/ATA/2MB ...uncertain)
- Sound Blaster live!
- Video card 32MB nVIDIA Geforce DDR
- Motherboard is uncertain
- Two 256 SDRAM Sticks = 512 SDRAM

I have to honestly say, I was extremely dissapointed with my experience. When I bought the computer, the processor was the fastest there was. (Or at least the sales person who got the commission claimed it was.) Everything else was the best Circuit City had to offer at the time. (Or at least the sales person who got the commission claimed it was.) The computer worked beautifully for the first year with only an average of maybe 2-3 crashes per week. The second year everything went down road; I was experiencing a crash every four or five hours, and from there it only got worse. Every game I bought and played, brought with it a horrendous series of trial and error. Cleaning this, changing that, turning down these options, installing these drivers/patches... etc.. By the third year only half the games I purchased actually worked on my computer. Those that did work, worked only with frequent crashing. Once per hour was about the average crashing rate. I spent over 500 dollars over the course of one year just taking the computer to the tech. to figure out what was wrong. the computer tech. found nothing. Its obvious to me now, that the hardware was just obsolete. In one year, my hardware in combination with the bugs that come with HP and the several different operating systems I went through, my computer was no longer efficient.

After a lot of research I've decided its best to build your own PC. This way I won't have to worry about being doomed from the start. My only responsibility is to educate myself, and get help from a professional when it comes to the actual installation of the hardware to the motherboard. In deciding which hardware to purchase, however, I need only choose wisely, thats where you come in. I figure there is no way to prevent my computer from eventually becoming obsolete, but hopefully, if I choose the right hardware, I can leave room for future upgrades, and remain efficient in most the departments for years to come. My goal is to still be using the same hardware 4-5 years after purchase. To do this, I'll have to buy the best quality hardware. I read somewhere the average life expectancy of a PC is 5 years. Until now thats only been a dream of mine, with your help, I'd like to make that a reality.

Before I ask any questions I'd like to give some advice of my own:

- For those who are not aware, HP's way of ensuring that you return to them or their manufacturers in the near future is to place a large motherboard in a small case, with the floppy drive almost touching the motherboard. By doing this, they prevent customers from being able to upgrade their hardware. (I actually bought the new nVIDIA Geforce2 4600 Ti 128MB video card and when I took it to the computer tech. to be installed, I discovered that there wasn't room for it. Unless I wanted unhook everything and then hook everything back up in an entirely new case, I had no way of upgrading.)

- If your a gamer, or own a high end computer, invest in cooling products. The more the better. You really can't spend too much on cooling products. Arctic Grease, water cooling, multiple fans. They all work. They also all work together. The cooler your machine runs, the longer it lasts. When determining the age of your computer, there are two things to consider:
1) The average temperature of your computer when running at its average performance/speed.
2) The average amount of time your computer is in use.
When choosing your computer case, try to find one with side panel fans. A built in ventilation system is also a common feature to consider.


I'll list the hardware I've done research on and decided is the best while taking these three things into consideration:

- Best performance
- Quality: long lasting
- Cost efficient


- Athlon AMD 2800+XP Cost: $600.00
Comments: I compared the two best processors. The Intel 3.06GHZ with the Athlon AMD 2800+XP. The Athlon was the best for the quality and cost. Performance was very slightly behind that of the Intel 3.06Ghz.

- Three Corsair XMS3500 DDR 512RAM Sticks (1536RAM)
Cost: $229.95 each
Comments: I read that Corsair has always been the highest quality RAM. Its used in most comparitive reviews.

- Two 8MB 7200RPM 80GB Western Digital Hard Drives
Cost: $139.99 each
Comments: I was convinced by a sales person from Circuit City that these Hard Drives are the best speeds. They are being sold on sale for a limited time only. Chosen for quality and cost efficiency.

- nVIDIA Geforce2 4600 Ti 128MB Video Card Cost: None
Comments: I already recently purchased this video card. I chose it for its quality and performance. The Radeon 9700 Pro had some negative reviews. I read the video card didn't work with certain PC games. nVIDIA also seems to have easier maintenance.

- Audigy 2 Platinum Cost: $199.99
Comments: I read a couple reviews which indicated the best performance.

- Motherboard: Undecided (Help needed in deciding.)


That pretty much sums up the internal hardware I'm considering. Please give your comments freely. If you disagree with anything, please let me know. Think theres something better out there? Let me know. Remember, my top priority is to buy hardware that will last me the longest before needing to be replaced because the performance is too poor. As you can see above, I also need help in deciding which motherboard I need. I know little about motherboards. I need a motherboard that can take advantage of the rest of the hardware listed above. For example, how much ram can a motherboard really use? Will 1536ram slow down the computer rather than speed it up? Is it too much ram? The reason why I am considering purchasing three stick of 512ram is because I want to ensure that I'll have efficient ram for years to come. Games these days are requiring more and more ram than before. Please educate me more about the motherboard and how it corresponds that your ram/other functions. I know everything has to be compatible. However, I also know that your system specs need to be balanced in order to ensure everything is being used at %100 efficiency.


Below are accessory items under current consideration:

- Multiple Cooling Fans Cost: $65.00
Comments: I considered water cooling, but someone scared me away from that idea by warning me about the tubes breaking and water damaging the internal hardware. Arctic Grease seems complicated, does it really work? Multiple fans seem like an adequate solution. I am a bit paranoid about overheating...again. However, I was talked into this simple solution by three separate individuals. --I'd like your opinions...

- Beautiful full sized case with clear side panels and side panel fans. Plenty of room for upgrading. USB ports on front and back. Blue light for enchanced look. Cost: $99.99
Comments: I wanted a case with clear side panels mostly for the comfort that would come with having the ability to see inside and perhaps spot overheating and/or fans malfunctioning. It also seems to be an easy way of determining when your fans need to be cleaned. (The room where my computer will reside tends to collect dust extremely fast. This probably contributed to my previous PC overheating.)

- Bluetooth Cordless Laser Mouse and Keyboard with Receiver.
Cost: $159.99
Comments: I do a lot of gaming. Its my cure for bordom. When I'm not studying or working out a the gym I'm on my PC gaming. I'm damn good at it too. I read this mouse and keyboard were the best for what I do.

- Windows XP on one Hard Drive. Windows 98 on other Hard Drive. WinXP Cost: $100 Win98 Cost: None
Comments: I already own 98. Windows 98 seems to work better on some games, whereas Windows XP seems to work better on others. Windows XP is also better for its many features. --I had my single hard drive partitioned on my previous PC, with Windows 98 on one half, and Windows XP on the other half. The computer tech. told me that Windows XP was causing problems with Windows 98 because the two operating system were programmed to work together. Would I encounter the same problems if I had them on seperate hard drives? Can you confirm these claims? More information regarding this topic would be appreciated.

- Speakers: Undecided (I'd like to purchase the best speakers, ones that can fully take advantage of the high performance sound card listed above. I play a lot of first person shooter games. When playing those games its essential that you know exactly from which direction noises are coming from. For example: when an opponent opens a door when playing Medal of Honor, when he/she is not in any line of site, I need to be able to determine if he/she is coming from the south, southwest, northeast... etc; Pinpoint sound accuracy is essential.)



It's getting late here. Please don't be afraid to type a long response. Try to be informative when posting. Give plenty of examples when necessary. I'll check the thread again tomorrow. Thank you for reading/posting. :D
 
http://forums.zone365.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=492
http://forums.zone365.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=678

That would be something that I'd suggest reading here and see if that helps any.

I would see about salvaging any parts you can...which is probably the drives in this case. I would keep entire HP system until you can determine what doesn't work at all and toss that.

You want to do a dual boot, so here's the quick advice: Install 98 before XP and use FAT32 partitions if you want to see all the drives from either OS. Don't install both OS's on the same partition.

I would suggest a motherboard based on the nForce 2 chipset. These tend to be a little more expensive than other motherboards in some cases, but they have good integration, like a NIC, 5.1 Dolby Digital sound, USB and Firewire. They are also known for very high stability.

I'd concentrate on getting parts you actually need instead of buying an extra part that you could've swiped from the HP system. Once our website comes back up, I intend to do a walkthrough on PC building.
 
Okay, reading your post again, I see some problems.

First, if you intend to use 98, having 1.5GB of memory will be bad news. It's really not able to handle more than 128MB efficiently.

2nd. For gaming, I can't see 1.5GB of RAM being that necessary. I know you want to future proof your system, but 512MB is plenty for right now. I'd go with 512MB for the time being since you can always get more later without sacrificing quality now. 2nd, yes, Corsair is good, but if you're not gonna overclock, you might consider something a little cheaper, like Samsung and save some money.

The Audigy: Creative has some driver issues that still are present today. If you get an nForce 2 motherboard, it'd be a waste to buy a separate sound card when you've got something nearly as good (which you may not be able to tell). Creative has some very bloated drivers that take forever to install. If you want my opinion, look into Hercules cards if you don't get an nForce 2 motherboard. They've got good sound cards and cheaper prices for about the same stuff Creative offers in their cards. I have a Hercules Fortissimo II that I like a lot better than the Audigy. I bought both cards brand new but the FII was 40 bucks cheaper than the Audigy. If you won't back down from the Audigy 2 platinum, at least consider looking at a plain Audigy 2--especially if you won't be putting that front panel to good use.

For cooling, I recently bought a ThermalRight SK-7 for my Athlon 2000+ (@ 2200 :D currently). It cools very well. Their SLK-800 is supposedly the best right now. It does run about $40, but it's very very good. You can slap a decent 80mm fan and have a fairly quiet system.

Video card. The people that keep crying that ATi has problems may be right, but alot of that is from several years ago when ATi truly was crappy. The 9700 sucks a lot of juice, and that is probably the majority of the problem. However, since you've already got a Ti4600, I wouldn't ditch that right now as it's still no slouch.

Keyboard and mouse. Nothing is wrong with your solution, but do keep in mind that the batteries get eaten up by cordless mice, especially the optical ones. Logitech has one, the MX700, that has a charger for the mouse. It is fairly expensive (I think $60-70), but it's pretty good apparently. I would recommend an optical mouse regardless. I'll never go back to the balled mice. I have the MS Intellimouse Optical (one step below the Explorer) on 2 machines and they work fantastic. I have a 2 button one by logitech on another box---and that works great as well.

Keyboards: I had a Logitech one last me for at least 4 years. When it died at the end of last year, I got another one. I live with 4 cats, and it survived that.

For the motherboard, are there any features you want in particular on it? Any chipset your intrested in? I've been pushing the nForce 2, but there are a few other solutions out there.
 
Yeah! My thread has been referred to. Cool!

But anyway, yes, read through that mammoth thread of mine. It basically goes from my knowledge of hardware being practically nothing to being what it is now (and right now I'm on my newly built computer). And even if you can, don't go overboard buying parts. A lot of things, like Big B mentioned with the memory, will be a big waste of money.
 
If you haven't bought the Audigy 2 already I'd do as Big B suggested and pick up either the Asus A7N8X or Chaintech Zenith 7NJS.

The Asus board has every connection you can think of with dual lan, firewire, 6 usb 2.0 ports. The Chaintech board isn't as feature rich but it comes with the cbox which will display your hardware diagnostics and puts firewire & usb ports to the front of your pc.



Speaker wise if you want the best I'd go with Klipsch's 5.1 setup or the Logitech Z680's. I have the Klipsch setup and once you've heard it you'll probably not want to go back to anything else, or at least until they bring out a 7.1 or higher system :). I've never used Logitech's speakers but from all the reviews they're highly rated and supposed to be up to the level of the Klipsch's so either way you should get a rich audio experience.



The WD Caviar HD's are excellent drives, almost performing upto SCSI drive performance so you shouldn't be disappointed with them.


The video card I could maybe see you having to change in the near term future once Doom 3 hits and everything released seems to be based off it's engine. Your Ti4200 will be able to run them but you won't get the optimizations Carmack has made for the GeForce FX.


The last thing is as Big B pointed out 1.5 Gigs of ram is a bit of overkill unless you do alot of photoshop work, video editing, cad/cam/cae work. If not 512 should cover you.
 
Wow a lot of responses. Thank you!

Questions & Notes:


- Doesn't Bluetooth use a Wireless Transceiver which provides the power so your mouse & keyboard don't need their own batteries?

- My current Speakers are Altec Lansings. It is a two speaker and one large sub set. They sound great. Better than most recent speaker sets I hear on display at the local Circuit City and Best Buy. However, sound is essential. The slightest sound or clarity would make all the difference. No such thing as going overboard on speakers. Lets start a vote shall we? Everyone who reads this post, please respond with a vote on which speaker system you believe to be the best performance wise.

- Big B, I did salvage all the parts I could. The hardware I plan on using from the HP consists of:
1) CD ROM/DVD DRIVE
2) CD RW
3) Floppy Drive
4) Modem
5) Ethernet Adapter
Other items such as the Sony Trinitron Moniter and some Cables & other accessories will be reused.

- Yes, the nForce2 chipset is something I would prefer. When it comes to motherboard, RAM, Sound Card, and Hard Drive, I need the best there is. My goal isn't to get away with cash left over so much as it is to get whatever I need to get to ensure that the hardware will last the longest possible before needing to be upgraded because of performance/quality issues.

- You said that 1.5RAM was too much. Someone said that 512 was more than enough. I read somewhere that when it comes to hosting games and playing mulitplayer games over servers and such, having too much ram doesn't exist. I'm a gaming fanatic. I play every type of game, when I'm bored I'll play multiple games at once, or at least host more than one server at once (seperate games.) Please give more information about the RAM issue. Enlighten me. If I have too much ram, will it be just collecting dust? Or will it actually slow down the performance of my gaming?? If it just collects dust, but doesn't interfere with my gaming experience, then I'll settle for 1GB of ram rather than 1.5GB. I don't mind having more than needed when it comes to ram if theres any possible chance within the next 5 years a game will be released recommending more than 512RAM. if I recall correctly, I believe the long awaited Gothic 2 is going to recommend more than 512RAM for maximum performance. Gothic 1 is my favorite PC game of all time. Gothic 2 is due to be released sometime between this month and the end of April. Remember, games give both a "recommended" system specs and a "required" system specs. The required system specs are usually the minimum needed just to run the game.... usually resulting in poor performance. A lot of games currently "require" 256ram. If your good at math and step back to realize the rate of growth in the software industry; for example, two years ago the average ram requirement was only 64MB. Now its already 256? I'm mosty anticipating the next step up being 512ram... which I would bet will happen within the next two years. Within the next 5 years I would bet that ram recommendations will be as high as 1,024RAM. These observations are based on the history of software and computer evolution. Each step up, or advancement in the computer industry seems to be larger than the last, usually double. For example, video cards started at 16mb (or at least thats as far back as I can recall), the next increase was 32mb, then 64mb, then 128mb, then 256mb, then 512mb. See the pattern? The next step up will be a single 1,024MB stick of RAM. The software industry has always been just slightly behind that of the computer industry. For the software industry, its a race to see who can be the first to create software that can fully take advantage of the hardware available. For the software industry, more is usually better, especially in gaming.

- Big B: "First, if you intend to use 98, having 1.5GB of memory will be bad news. It's really not able to handle more than 128MB efficiently."
Please elaborate on this topic. I don't understand. Is the Operating System what determines how much RAM can be used? Does it just contribute to it? Does Windows 98 just tend to cause errors when trying to process too much ram? Pick your brain for me on this one =)

- Big B: "2nd. For gaming, I can't see 1.5GB of RAM being that necessary. I know you want to future proof your system, but 512MB is plenty for right now. I'd go with 512MB for the time being since you can always get more later without sacrificing quality now. 2nd, yes, Corsair is good, but if you're not gonna overclock, you might consider something a little cheaper, like Samsung and save some money."
The money I plan on using to purchase this hardware is mostly coming from a grant. Its a long story, but basically what I don't get now, I won't be able to get for another 4 years. Thats why I'm really trying to prepare myself for the next 4-5 years. Corsair cost 20 or 40 dollars extra? Its only better for overclocking? It might be worth it. Let me know what you think. Instead of 1,536GB of RAM, would it be okay for me to settle with 1,024RAM? Or would it actually ruin my gaming experience by decreasing the performance?

- Big B: "If you won't back down from the Audigy 2 platinum, at least consider looking at a plain Audigy 2--especially if you won't be putting that front panel to good use."
Please elaborate on this topic. What exactly is front panel for? What are differences?
"The Audigy: Creative has some driver issues that still are present today. If you get an nForce 2 motherboard, it'd be a waste to buy a separate sound card when you've got something nearly as good..."
What are the issues exactly? What sound card does the nForce 2 motherboard come with? What factors are you using to determine this sound card is "nearly as good"?

- Keep in mind the CPU I plan on purchasing. The AMD Athlon 2800+ XP. That and the XMS3500 RAM should narrow down my selection of motherboards.

- syngod: "The WD Caviar HD's are excellent drives, almost performing upto SCSI drive performance so you shouldn't be disappointed with them."
Please give more information regarding the pros and cons of the SCSI Hard Drives. If they are noticably better, would anyone recommend I consider purchasing these hard drives instead? Fast accessibility is definately an important thing to have. I can't stand the 3-4 second delays when trying to open a folder or program; it drives me nuts.

- syngod: "The video card I could maybe see you having to change in the near term future once Doom 3 hits and everything released seems to be based off it's engine. Your Ti4200 will be able to run them but you won't get the optimizations Carmack has made for the GeForce FX."
The Video card I have is the latest nVIDIA card. Its the Ti4600. It is in my opinion the best there is right now. The Radeon 9700 Pro has some unwanted occasional errors. (Or so I was told by two or more sources.) I was convinced by several different people the Ti4600 was the best for gaming. What exactly is the Carmack and the GeForce FX? Please elaborate on this topic.
P.S. Its not too late for me to return the video card if absolutely necessary.



Thank you once again for reading/posting here. Your all a temendous help. If everything works out and I manage to get enough information from this source to finally settle and purchase the hardware necessary to build my new PC, then I'll name it after this forum. Or maybe I'll just let you guys name it for me. (Naming a new PC is always a blast for me, I have no idea why its always so rewarding.)
 
-RAM: If you are just playing games, 512MB is sufficient. However, if you do intend to host games, more is better, but...
98 cannot support more than 512MB of RAM. It's been optimized for 128MB, and much over 256MB starts to slow it down actually. 98 may actually be less stable with 512MB or more---if your able actually get into the OS. Microsoft has documented this issue, so it is known.

Gaming-wise, what your proposing, 512MB is good enough. 1GB is pushing it. If you want to go that far, you'll have to drop 98 from your plans, as explained above.

A lot of RAM isn't a bad thing, but the video card is also very important.

The XP2800+ uses a 333MHz front side bus. Unless you overclock, you're not gonna gain anything by getting something faster. With the nForce 2, you can run the FSB and Memory asynchronously, so if you do that, you can benefit from the faster RAM.

The boards that I'd look into are the Abit NF7-S and Asus A7N8X for the nForce 2. I have seen the Gigabyte GA-7VAXP Ultra and that's a very loaded board too. It runs the Via KT400 chipset, however.

The nForce 2 comes with it's own integrated sound, dubbed "SoundStorm" by nVidia. It's 5.1 dolby digital sound to boot. If the original sound on the nForce 1 is any indication, it's a very good sound setup. Unless you are an absolute audio freak, I doubt you'll know the difference.

For the speakers, if you are happy with what you have, I really wouldn't upgrade 'em just to have new ones.

If you can return the video card and get a 9700Pro, I'd at least consider it. Right now, it is the fastest video card on the market avaible for purchase. The GeForce FX concerns me with the samples that have been reviewed. I personally don't like a super loud PC, so if manufacturers use the vacuum cleaner that's been strapped on to the GFFX, I'd personally not be really keen on that.

The WD Caviar drives are the fastest IDE drives you can buy. The only thing faster is SCSI hard drives. SCSI is faster and more reliable than IDE, however, it is very expensive. Depending on where you look, you can expect to pay between $150-200 for an 18GB 10k RPM SCSI hard drive. You'll also need to factor in at least another $100 (usually more) for a SCSI controller card. I've played with everything else but SCSI, and the reason is that it's just too expensive for me.

The mouse and keyboard: No, Bluetooth does not power the devices via the wireless link. I'd be nice, but the MS ones I've seen felt fairly heavy from the batteries I saw inside them.
If you go with the Bluetooth solution, keep in mind that only Windows XP supports it. If you want to keep 98 at all, you'll have to get something else if you want to stay wireless.

And yes, naming your PC is fun. I do that to a PC if I change enough parts on it.
 
for the speakers, you can always put as much money as you want into those. But if you can, I'd suggest to plug your card into an audio receiver and use real speakers instead of plastic computer ones. No computer speakers will ever beat the sound of a real audio system, that's my opinion of course.

Then again you need to have that receiver, I certainly don'T suggest you to buy a receiver only for gaming but if you've already got one, I think that is the best solution : better sound with no extra cost.
 
Since you mention running a server the extra ram may come in handy, so it might be worth it if your planning on running a fairly active gaming server.

Win 95/98 were designed when most people felt 128 Megs was pushing it for ram so Windows was only designed to make use of 128/256 megs of ram. Anything over that limit usually causes a great deal on instabilty as it confuses the OS.

Speaker-wise I'm sure Big B will agree with me that Klipsch are basically the best you can get, for a general idea of top of the line components I'd check out Alienware. Alienware specializes in high end gaming pc's so you'll usually find the best performing parts in their systems.

SCSI is pretty much reserved for the server market which is the reason for the huge price difference Big B mentioned. The advantages to it are the same as Big B said as well as it usually has Hot Swapability so you can rip the drive out while the rest of your system stays up.

John Carmack is the lead programmer over at ID software and has said that Doom 3 is based around the GF 2 hardware however if you want to run it with full eye candy on you'll need a GF FX based card.
 
I will definately drop Windows 98 from my plans. Would anyone recommend having two hard drives if I'm only going to use one Operating System? Any advantages to having two seperate hard drives?

I will definately get the best motherboard I can find with the nForce2 chipset. Much thanks to Big B's informative posts and recommendations based on chipsets/motherboards.

I will definately stick with my plan to purchase the 8MB 7200RPM WD 80GB Hard Drive(s). Should I have one or two? They don't cost much. I can afford two if recommended for any reason.

I'll definately get a new speaker system, as I am sure there are better speakers than the ones I currently own. It's not a priority merely to "have new ones." It's a priority to have the best sounding ones.

I'll settle with the Bluetooth Mouse & Keyboard --especially since I've decided not to use Windows 98.

I have another example for you regarding the RAM topic. I just got done playing a scenerio in Warcraft 3. I was hosting a full room. It was a cable only game, so we all had cable connections. Once we got into the battle, there were around 10,000 units on the map. The lagg got so bad no one could even move their mouse or type properly. I'm sure its not a result of the connection speed of the players. I think most would agree, it has something to do with our system specs. I can't speak for everyone else in the game, but I had 512RAM, and as the host it seems a clear indication that it wasn't sufficient. I will at least go with 1,024RAM (Two 512 Sticks).
- Will having that much ram slow down the performance if using Windows XP?
- Is there anything I can safely overclock so that more of the RAM can/will be used?

If everyone seems to be on agreement regarding the sound card, then I'll just settle for what comes with the motherboard. I stressed how important precise sound accuracy is to me. If after reading my arguement, your still convinced I won't notice any difference with the sound card that comes with the motherboard, then I'll knock off the Audigy 2 platinum from the list of hardware to purchase. Please confirm this step before its made into a definate priority.

- How does the front side bus (assuming its part of the motherboard) correspond to the memory(RAM)?

- Big B: "If you can return the video card and get a 9700Pro, I'd at least consider it. Right now, it is the fastest video card on the market avaible for purchase. The GeForce FX concerns me with the samples that have been reviewed. I personally don't like a super loud PC, so if manufacturers use the vacuum cleaner that's been strapped on to the GFFX, I'd personally not be really keen on that."
Please elaborate on this subject.
- Why is it faster?
- What is the GeForce FX?
- Which of the two video cards does it apply to?
- One video card is louder than the other?
- What does GFFX stand for?
- Would the Radeon 9700 Pro be worth the extra $100 dollars it costs?
- Is there a noticable difference?
- Would the Radeon 9700 Pro work better on the Doom 3 game syngod mentioned? If so, why?

- syngod: "John Carmack is the lead programmer over at ID software and has said that Doom 3 is based around the GF 2 hardware however if you want to run it with full eye candy on you'll need a GF FX based card."
Please elaborate on this subject. I know nothing about Doom 3, GF, FX, GF 2, or the expression "...full eye candy..." Once again, I'm completely ignorant regarding the topic at hand. What is ID software? What is the GF FX based card? Is it the Radeon 9700 Pro?

P.S. Sorry for any typos or punctuation mistakes on any of my previous and future posts. I usually type a lot and don't feel it necessary to edit or proof read my text. I am hoping you all can translate my errors.


I must be going for now. I'll check back either later tonight or tomorrow afternoon. Thanks for reading/posting.
 
ID software is the company behind the Quake, Doom and Wolfenstein game titles. Full eye candy is being able to turn on all the options in the game to get the best possible visual experience.

The Radeon 9700 and GeForce FX are the new Direct X 9 parts which is Microsoft's programming API's developers use to design games. For a general overview of what the GF FX will offer nV News has a nice little commentary up about it. The Radeon 9700 should run Doom 3 and all games based on it's engine nicely but it's been tweaked to include enhancements the GF FX will ship with.

The Radeon 9700 is a nice card, I'm just leary to reccomend an ATi card because of driver issues. For the GF FX the only downsides are price ($399 pre-order through Best Buy) and the huge fan/heatsink it has (you'll see it if you lok at the link above) which requires a free PCI slot below your AGP slot.


Win XP is based off of Windows NT so in regards to ram management it's much more effecient than the Windows 9x/ME line. Not only that but you'll notice a dramatic increase in system uptime over Win 98.
 
Btw Big B, Gainward is supposed to be releasing their FX based card the cooling system only putting out 7dbi compared to the 70dbi of the reference card, so while it runs hot it seems as though you can get away without the vac attached to your card :).
 
Yes, I've heard. Some suspect it's something like what Zalman has invented for silent operation on current cards. I do think that ultimate judgement should be reserved until the final, retail cards should come out.

The 9700 Pro is the fastest you can buy right now. nVidia typically has some more performance that they milk out of their cards down the road. I'd buy it simply because it is the fastest. However, if you got a good deal on the Ti4600 (Like $300 or less) I'd just as soon keep that rather than pony up another $100. If you want to have the latest and greatest you can, the 9700 Pro is the card to beat. It's closest competition, the GeForce FX, isn't out yet.

Doom 3 and the GeForce FX are both not available for purchase as of yet, and we don't know if all retail cards will be like nVidia's sample. Doom 3 is promising a lot, but I've seen a lot promised before, so I'll reserve judgement before playing it. How high of a screen resolution is something else you may want to consider. While getting something like the Radeon 9700 Pro isn't bad to future proof yourself, if you're not playing in resolutions higher than 1024x768 and 32-bit color with details cranked up, you can still do pretty well with even slower cards (not that I'm suggesting you do). I like some eye candy personally, but you might be totally different.
 
I don't have any new questions right now. There are a lot of questions on my previous posts that were not answered. I'll just post them again in hope of more responses.


Question 1:
I will definately drop Windows 98 from my plans. Would anyone recommend having two hard drives if I'm only going to use one Operating System? Any advantages to having two seperate hard drives?

Question 2:
Is there anything I can safely overclock so that more of the RAM can/will be used in conjunction with Windows XP?

Question 3:
If everyone seems to be on agreement regarding the sound card, then I'll just settle for what comes with the motherboard. I stressed how important precise sound accuracy is to me. If after reading my arguement, your still convinced I won't notice any difference with the sound card that comes with the motherboard, then I'll knock off the Audigy 2 platinum from the list of hardware to purchase. Please confirm this step before its made into a definate priority.

Question 4:
How does the front side bus (assuming its part of the motherboard) correspond to the memory(RAM)?


New: Question 5:: Does anyone have a personal recommendation they'd like to share with me? I'm open to anything from further safety measures: Surge Supressors, to alternate cooling --or even fun measures: a tropical gold fish w/fish tank being installed for looks. Let me know what steps you'd take if you have a little cash left over to spend on acessory items. (Colored or glow in the dark cables to go with my florescent blue lighting?)


As always, thank you all for reading/posting. I'll check the forums again later.
 
1.) If you download or store alot of stuff on your PC, having that much space may not be a bad idea. Of course, 2 80GB drives is quite a bit of space, so if you're not gonna hit up KaZaA or some other file sharing program, 1 80GB drive is good enough. If you get a motherboard that has RAID capabilities and want to play with that, having 2 hard drives is a must to make it work---it's not something you have to do, but I thought it wise to mention it. I use my RAID controllers as extra IDE ports for the hard drives since only one IDE device can be accessed at a time per channel ( 1 per port at a time) to get the max performance out of your system.

2.)That entirely depends on each individual component. I would leave everything at the default to ensure the system is functioning properly before overclocking it. You can overclock the front side bus on your CPU. How much, I can't say as that varies from each individual chip. You can also OC your video card---again, how much depends on the memory and the core.

3.)Drop the Audigy 2. If you find out that the sound is just not good enough for you (and it should be), then go buy it. If you can get something integrated that's good enough for you, that's one less thing you have to buy. It won't be any worse than the sound you've had to work with.

4.) The front side bus is part of the CPU frequency. Using the multipliers in conjunction with the front side bus determines the speed of the CPU. Think of the front side bus as the speed limit on the highway and the multiplier as the number of lanes on it.
Keeping the memory in sync with the front side bus ensures that the data goes on longer. Running the memory faster that the FSB asynchronously can give even more headroom to the data. If you do overclock with an asynchronous FSB and memory speeds via the FSB, you may cap how far you can OC. If you OC far enough with the asynchronous settings, you may not be able to get better performance by running both in sync.

5.)Surge Suppressors/power strips. APC is one of the best you can buy. They insure your hardware up to $10,000 if their surge protectors don't stop a power spike. The ones I get run about $30. A bit on the expensive side, but it's probably the best insurance you can do for yourself. Don't skimp here, buy a good unit.
I don't know how you are on fan noise, but I would suggest buying your CPU OEM---meaning the CPU only, nothing else---and then purchasing a separate heatsink. About the best thing next to water cooling is the ThermalRight SLK-800. Slap on a decent 80mm fan to move enough air and you can have a fairly quite system. The heatsink runs about $40, but with the CPU you intend to get, I'd be a little concerned about cooling the thing. Even if you're not concerned about the cooling as much, the retail heatsink is just there to do the job good enough. It's not a high performance cooler---and if you try to overclock, it could stop you from getting the most out of the OC.
There are some pretty sweet cases out that have windows in them already and may include a power supply (which may or may not be that high of quality). You can find many with extra fans in them as well. Some even have lighting in them.

One last thing: the power supply. Don't skimp on this area either. You get what you pay for. Antec and Sparkle are 2 companies that I'd highly recommend. I would get a good PSU that's rated for at least 350W or better. These do a better job of supplying clean power to the system which can hold back the overclocking or stability of a system. With the high powered CPU and video card your plunking in, it's a good idea to get a PSU to handle it.
 
To answer the Audigy 2 vs. nForce's soundstorm question, they both have their advantages and disadvantages.

Firingsquad has an article that explains the pros and cons of the two in a head to head challenge.

Actually I was just thinking for the gfx portion of your system stick with your Ti4200 for now. If you really want your syetm to last for 5 years it'd probably be best to save the money you'd put down now and in a couple years picking up the latest and greatest video card. Your Ti4200 should be able to run everything in the forseeable future, and with ATi now actually able to compete with nVIDIA I wouldn't be suprised if videocards go back to 6 month product cycles.
 
Its not the Ti4200. Its the GeForce 4 Ti4600. The Ti4200 is only 64MB, a much slower overall video card. Its old in comparison. The Ti4600 was released around the same time as the Radeon 9700 Pro --or at least thats the assumption based on the many reviews I've seen where they compare the Ti4600 to the Radeon 9700 Pro. In some reviews the Ti4600 was claimed a "better" video card for its additional support and more common/stable technology. In others, the Radeon 9700 was the "better" one for its clear power and performance.

Here is a good link with the concrete facts. Its not much of a review, but it compares the specs of the two:

http://www.ocsystem.com/atirad97prov.html

I'll definately purchase the Radeon 9700 Pro. It's not a bad idea to have an extra video card anyway. I hadn't educated myself enough before I purchased the nVIDIA GeForce 4 Ti4600. I would just take the video card back for the money, but I won a free upgrade from the 4400 to the 4600, which in turn saved me around $100 dollars. I'll keep it since I wouldn't be getting its value in return.

I may have referred to the GeForce 4 Ti4600 video card as GeForce 2 rather than GeForce 4. Sorry for the confusion there.
 
After going to the link you provided, and reading the reviews, it sounds as though the Audigy 2 is better for performance gaming. I didn't read it with any depth, I just skimmed the text. I think the only negative thing about the Audigy 2 Platinum is that it had poorer recording or encoding. Correct me if I'm wrong. After reading that review, I once again find myself partial and undecided on which sound card to buy...

Lets assume I'm going to settle for the nForce 2 sound card which comes with the motherboard. Does this mean my new objective is to find a motherboard which comes with the NVIDIA nForce2 MCP with SoundStorm sound card? Or do all motherboards with the nForce 2 chipset come with the NVIDIA nForce2 MCP with SoundStorm sound card?
 
Whoops guess I should have reread the top thread before posting, used to everyone having Ti 4200's.

Right now you have a video card that can run everything on the shelves with your 4600, so I'd probably skip the 9700 and hold off a bit as video cards are going more to adding more cinematic effects rather than raw power I can see the 9700 being obsolete half way through the time your planning this system to last.

For the nForce 2's the majority of them carry the Soundstorm chip, I believe there may be 1-2 boards that are not. When looking at the boards just see if they mention soundstorm or MCP. If they're mentioned the board should ship with nvidia's sound solution.

For an idea of the quality the nForce's audio is it's the same chip powering the Xbox's audio, so if you've played with an xbox you should have a good idea of the sound quality.
 
Okay, everyone! I've almost got everything set and ready to be purchased. I am just stuck on one thing. The motherboard. I went to the computer sales person today, he said he couldn't find any motherboards with the nForce 2 chipset, the Soundstorm sound card, the AMD athlon 2800+ capability, and the Corsair XMS3500 capability. The only motherboard he could find is one with the nForce 2 chipset, and AMD athlon 2800+ capability, but without the SoundStorm sound card, and only able to use the 3200RAM instead of the 3500RAM.

I need your help finding a motherboard that can use the XMS3500 RAM, comes with the nForce 2 chipset, and the Soundstorm sound card, and can use the 2800+ athlon CPU. Once I find a motherboard that has these four specifications, I'll then be able to finalize the order.

Please make suggestions. I am set on getting the two Corsair 512 XMS 3500 RAM chips, but I am willing to drop the sound card idea and just purchase that seperate.
 
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