Cooling Advice

Matt555

Matt555

iMod
Okay I thought I set this thread up to help people in deciding what cooling to choose and to help in general with what is a good cooler.
Which Cooler? (Air)
Okay so some people need new coolers, there are so many to choose from...which one will you choose “win or lose…” (that’s a Mighty Boosh thing) anyway…
Stock Cooling (this is air cooling, just on a basic lets-keep-the-thing-cool-but-not-spend-too-much-money principle
A standard stock cooler is fine for out-of-the-box running, however for the overclocker/cool temperatures freak (like myself) stock cooling just can’t cut it. You need an alternative to your standard cooling, so what else is there available?
Air Cooling
This uses the same principal as stock cooling but is more efficient, cooler and often a lot quieter (and more expensive). It may have specially designed heatsinks (for example the Zalman flower series circular heatsinks) and fans (for example the Arctic Cooling Freezer series ‘suspended’ fans) to provide better cooling for Video Cards and CPU's.
Many new coolers incorporate Aluminium and Copper into their heatsinks, which means they get the heat conductivity of Copper whilst keeping the weight down the Aluminium.
Fans are really all about air movement (measured in CFM-Cubic Feet per Minute). However with other fans (I take noise into consideration more than air movement, obviously it has to move a decent amount of air but it has to be quiet) noise is more of an issue (see this site for a guide to sound and sound levels). The general principle with fans is: the bigger it is, the slower it has to turn to move the same amount of air and therefore the quieter it will be, but this is not always the case. With some fans the aim is to keep them virtually silent, others (for example the Vantec Tornado fans) noise is last thing on their list, its all about how much air they can shift meaning your computer may end up sounding like it will take off.
Efficient air-cooling means more than adding a new heatsink, it’s no good adding a fancy new cooler if the warm air is just going to keep circulating around your case, good air cooling means a good intake of air at the bottom-front of the case and exhausting that hot air out the back and/or top. Another good intake idea is to have an intake fan on the side of the case to blow cool fresh air over the RAM, CPU or Video Card. However not all cases have fan holders in these places although with modern cooling methods more and more cases do have this feature.
There is no one magical cooler that will work for everybody *cough*Freezer Series*cough* and it’s all down to personal choice, and space, for example some coolers can be quite wide and get in the way of other components, some have amazing air-moving powersand some can be very tall meaning they may not fit in the case. Here’s a list of some well known cooling companies that make some of the better air-coolers.
Akasa
Arctic-Cooling (make some of the best VGA coolers as well)
Coolermaster
Gigabyte
Thermalright
Vapochill Micro (make Phase-change coolers as well)
Zalman
I’m not too up-to-date or knowledgeable on water-cooling or phase change cooling so if anybody else knows about these then add it to this thread so there’s a thread about good cooling.
Matt
 
Nice post Matt555, i'd like to add if i may!

This post is there to answer the common question: "My CPU is running at xx degrees, is it too hot?". I've provided the maximum temperatures for some of the most popular CPUs.

Keep in mind that the onboard measurement diodes are often inaccurate and may report temperatures that are too lowor too high. This is especially the case with motherboards that use a thermal sensor below the CPU to "guess" the CPU temperature. The temperature values displayed by the BIOS have usually a correction value added, to compensate for this problem, but in some cases this correction value may be too low, or the sensor might not be in good contact with the CPU.

However, this doesn't mean that you should start to panic when your Athlon XP CPU reaches 60 degrees celsius, for example. Most people tend to
underestimate normal CPU operating temperatures - maybe due to overclockers bragging with their super-low CPU temperatures.

Also, note that these values are for CPUs that are at stock speeds and not overclocked. Overclocked CPUs may run unstable even if their temperature is way below the maximal specified temperature.

What happens if the maximum operating temperatures are exceeded?
If your cooler is insufficient and the temperature exceeds the maximum operating temperature, then this does not mean that the CPU is automatically damaged. With AMD CPUs, you will usually encounter crashes if the CPU is overheated; but these go away as soon as the CPU is cooler again. In the long term, running the CPU at a temperature that is too high may reduce the CPU life, since an overheated CPU is more prone to electromigration - even if it runs stable.With P4 CPUs, the CPU will turn its speed down automatically when it overheats. No damage to the CPU is possible, but the system will get slower while it's hot.

If you attempt to operate a CPU without heatsink at all, recent AMD CPUs will usually be permanently damaged within seconds, unless special protection circuitry is available on the motherboard. P4 CPUs will run excessively slow without cooler.

The purpose of this post is to give you a quick overview of typical maximum operating temperatures for common CPUs.
Higher is better here!

All Slot A CPUs (Athlon classic, Athlon Thunderbird) 70°C
Athlon Socket A up to 1 GHz, Duron up to 1.3GHz 90°C
Athlon "Thunderbird" Socket A 1.1GHz or more 95°C
Athlon MP 1.33GHz or more 95°C
Athlon XP up to 2100+ 90°C
Athlon XP 2200+ and faster 85°C
Duron "Applebred" 1.4G and faster 85°C
AMD Opteron 70°C
Athlon 64, 64FX, Sempron
Most models 70°C; 65°C for some Socket 939 Athlon 64 models
Athlon 64 X2 (dual core) 65°C

The temperatures specified for AMD CPUs max case surface temperatures.

Pentium III Slot 1 ('Coppermine') 500-866MHz 80-85°C
Pentium III Socket 370 and Slot 1, 933MHz 75°C
Pentium III Slot 1 933MHz 60°C
Pentium III Slot 1 1GHz 70°C
Pentium III Slot 1 1.13GHz (first version) 62°C

Pentium III/Celeron max temperatures are the maximum temperatures reported by the thermal junction inside the CPU.

Intel Celeron / Celeron
Celeron 266-433MHz 85°C
Celeron 466-533MHz (0.25µ) 70°C
Celeron 533-600MHz ('Coppermine) 90°C
Celeron 633 and 667MHz 82°C
Celeron 700-850 MHz 80°C
Celeron 900MHz-1.4GHz 69-70°C
Celeron 1.7GHz and faster 67-77°C

Intel Pentium 4, Pentium 4 Extreme Edition, Pentium M
Max. temperature depends much on model and clockspeed, but no clear pattern is visible. Consult Intel's tech specs for information on your particular model.
(Lowest: P4 EE 3.2GHz with 64°C, highest: P4 1.8GHz with 78°C) 64°C - 78°C
Pentium M 100°C

Intel Pentium D (dual core)
Pentium D 820 63°C
Pentium D 830 and 840 69.8°C

Note: Pentium 4 and Pentium D temperature specifications indicate the maximum cover temperature, which is usually lower than the temperature
reported by the internal thermal diode. Therefore, your system may be running fine even if the reported CPU temperature in the BIOS is higher than the temperature specified here. This does not mean that you're on the safe side, though.
 
Some information on Peltier Based Cooling.

What is a peltier cooler?
A peltier cooler or 'Thermo Electric' is a cooler that uses a peltier element (TEC). Peltier coolers consist of the peltier element itself, and a powerful heatsink/fan combination to cool the TEC.

Peltier basics
The typical maximum temperature difference between the hot side and the cold side of a TEC,is around 70°C.
Does this mean that simply adding a peltier element between heatsink and the CPU will cause the temperature of the cooled device to drop by 70°C? No, that would be too good to be true.

Imagine that you are cooling a CPU with a power usage of 35W, using a regular heatsink. Will the temperature drop if you add apeltier element between CPU and heatsink? No. For a simple reason: In addition to transporting heat, peltier elements also emit considerable amounts of heat.

So, the heatsink will have to dissipate substantially more heat than before, and will get much hotter.
Peltier elements have very low efficiency. They will consume more power than they transport! Actual peltier elements may consume twice as much energy as they transport heat. So, if you are using a peltier element, the heatsink it is used with must be much more powerful than a heatsink used for cooling a heat source without peltier element.

Do not confuse the maximum amount of power a peltier element can transport with the maximum amount of power usage of the peltier element. Some retailers sell "80W peltier element", without stating what this value actually means. This is misleading - what you want is a high transport capability, but a low power consumption.

Peltier elements come in various forms and shapes. Usually, they consist of a larger amount (e.g. 133) of thermocouples arranged in rectangular form, and packaged between two thin ceramic plates. The commercial TEC unit of interest for PC geeks is a single stage device, about 4 - 6 mm thick and somewhere from 15 to 40 mm on a side.

The TEC will have two wires coming out of it, if a voltage is applied to those wires, then a temperature difference across the two sides is achieved, if the polarity is reversed on the wires - then the temperature difference is also reversed. The TEC is placed in between the CPU/GPU and the heatsink with appropriate thermal interface materials. So one thing i might note is that if the voltage is applied in the wrong direction then the TEC will cool your heatsink and heat your CPU!

Peltier elements come in padded and non-padded versions. On non-padded peltiers, the thermocouples are visible from the side. On padded peltier elements, you can only see the padding material (often silicon) from the side.

Problems related to peltier cooling
As mentioned above, high power usage and high power dissipation are the biggest problems related to peltier cooling. In the days of first-generation Pentium CPUs, readymade peltier/heatsink combinations were widely available, which could be installed and used just like a regular heatsink.

For today's CPUs having a power dissipation of over 100W, building a Peltier CPU cooler using just a peltier element and a heatsink is quite a challenge, and ready-made peltier coolers are scarce and expensive. With such coolers, over 200W of heat may be dissipated inside the case. For modern CPUs, it is better to combine peltier elements with watercooling. In any case, the resulting cooling system will be expensive to run, due to its high power usage, and not very eco-friendly. The large power dissipation will require powerful fans.

Also, keep in mind that if the cooling of the peltier element fails, the results will be more disasterous that if a conventional cooling system fails. Even if your CPU has a thermal protection that will cause it to shut down if the temperature gets too high, the peltier element may still kill it by continueing to heat it up long after it has shut itself down.

Another problem related to peltier cooling is condensation. Since it is possible to cool components below ambient temperature using peltier elements, condensation may occur, which is something you'll definitely want to avoid - water and electronics don't mix well. The exact temperature at which condensation occurs depends on ambient temperature and on air humidity. There are some models of Peltier Cooling available that don't let the CPU cool below 28*C to prevent condensation.

Advantage of peltier elements
There is not really much to say here except These coolers kick ass in most cases providing you understand the disadvantages to Peltier Cooling so you can fully understand the advantages!

After having focused on problems related to Peltier cooling, let's not forget about their biggest advantage: They allow cooling below ambient temperature, but unlike other cooling systems that allow this (vapor phase refrigeration), they are less expensive and more compact. Peltier elements are solid-state devices with no moving parts; they are extremely reliable and do not require any maintainance but can be fairly expensive. That being said they are not for the faint of heart. If you are not a die hard overclocker then this might not be the way to go and should probably stick with Stock or aftermarket Air cooling!
 
Hey, some nice cooling advice there guys, very usefull :good:

whats the max and min temperature for my processor?
3.0ghz pentium 4.
 
Thought it might help having a thread about cooling advice (water, air, peltier and phase-change)
This way people can get good tips and advice in one place, making it easier to make a decision/solvfe a problem.
 
willhub said:
whats the max and min temperature for my processor?
3.0ghz pentium 4.
Click to expand...
Max is 70*C, Min- i don't think they really have a minimum, i'll check it out and get back to you :)

EDIT: I don't think there is a minmum, if anyone has read the tom's hardware 5Ghz project, they recorded -196*C. More than enough to cool my beer!
I'm guessing they would not be able to go much below 5~10*C otherwise condensation may occur and damage the motherboard components.
 
ok thanks, i have never seen mine go above 64 since i got new cooler, with old cooler, it used to be hitting 77!

i think toms hardware lie!
 
plz tell me what is the best solution to help cool my video card , its topping out at 97/98C before the system auto reboots, no matter what the cost, i built this machine to play games, and i planned on getting anotehr BFG 6800GT, thx guys
 
Try an Arctic Cooling VGA Cooler they are meant to be amazingly cool and quiet, plus whack on some AS5 to get temps down a few degrees and get rid of your 'Dust Bunnies' as Big B would say :good:
Also make sure cable management is good for good airflow.
 
Water Cooling

What's so good about water cooling?
Air can only carry away so much heat, the more heat you want to dissipate, the more air flow and surface area you need for a heatsink. Diminishing returns starts to set in fairly rapidly once you get beyond the Alpha heatsink stage. No matter how large the heatsink, its contact point is still the CPU's die. As heat moves beyond this contact area, it encounters something called "spread resistance". The reason you see copper bases in some heatsinks is that copper is more efficient in spreading heat over its surface than aluminum, but only up to a point.

So if the task at hand is to get as much cooling concentrated in a given area, all things being equal the more efficient cooling combo will cool better than its inferior. In the case of air vs. water, there is no contest - water is better.

What do i need to get started?
Pretty much the same setup as you have in your car - a radiator, fan, heat exchanger and pump. The larger the radiator, the more cooling, the higher the water flow through the system, the more cooling, and finally the more surface area contact between the heat exchanger and CPU, the more cooling. You should size components to the task at hand. You could use the radiator from your car but don't expect the same resutls.

What about the hoses?
This is something that should be planned out before you buy components. If you buy a kit, everything should fit so there's no problem. If you build your own, make sure that the connections are all the same size.

Where to i get the parts?
Some places are now selling complete kits for about $100USD/$160AUD/£60BP. Most will do fine, but obviously the more expensive ones are better. You will have to consider the dimensions of your case and where you want to mount the radiator.

What about the pump?
I think the most critical factor is the pump's ability to lift water to a certain height, this is called "head". Gallon-per-hour or liters-per-hour figures can be misleading, if a pump cannot lift water over one foot, then having this pump in a case where the pumping distance of two feet will not work. At a minimum, a pump should lift water to three feet at something like 20 gph. This should be sufficient for any CPU cooling.

What should i look for in a water block?
Pay close attention to how they mount - these are all custom designed fittings. Note what hose size is required and if it fits with the other components. Physical size is less important than water flow - hose size is an indication of how much water gets pumped through. Copper is a better heat conductor than aluminum but will be more expensive.

What about the radiator?
Size depends on your cooling requirement. If you plan to use multiple peltiers, then look for a good size radiator - say something like 5x10 or larger. How big will depend on where you plan to mount it; internal mounting does place a premium on size. For internal mounting, anything over 5x7 gets tricky. Also consider what size fan you plan to use - 120mm fans are the best for air-flow and low noise.

Where do i throw the radiator?
You could:
Mount the radiator in the case's front, using the fan to pull air over the radiator and into the case: Mount the radiator at the top of the case, exhausting air out of the case through the radiator; Mount the radiator outside the case, running hoses outside the case to a stand-alone radiator housing. I'm sure there are other options available, it;s personal taste and functionality really!

What about noise?
Basically all 120mm fans are low noise models. This setup is considerably quieter than any CPU air cooling and results in temp drop of about 4*C idle and 5~10*C on load. Coupled with a low-noise power supply, it is almost a whisper.

What about maintenance?
In a closed loop system, maintenance is minor. Maybe once a month make sure the water level is OK (should be no evaporation) and check the connections to make sure there are no leaks. Good pumps are designed for continuous running, are guaranteed for two years and require no maintenance.

What if the pump fails?
Not much different from a fan failure. If you take precautions, you can minimize the chance of catastrophic failure:

Use a monitor program like Motherboard Monitor - you will know if your CPU starts to overheat very quickly and you can link to a shutdown routine. Maintenance: Change out the pump every two years.
Extreme Caution: Use two pumps in tandem.

Water and Electronics don't mix! Chances of leakage?
Well if you're real concerned you can take some preventative measures. Waterproof all the boards, use die-electric grease in all the card and slot 1 connectors and use distilled water. But let's face it - this is not a high-pressure system, so pressure leaks should not be an issue. If every connection is clamped and proven in, the chance of a catastrophe is minimal.
 
Don't know if I forgot to sticky it the first time of if it got unstuck, but it's now stickied!
 
Hi, my computer heats up quickly. Which coolong device should i use to make its temperature low to work on it for a longer period?:)
 
Something to add as this thread is old: All-In-One (AIO) water cooling kits:

If you've been interested in water cooling, but don't want to mess around with piecing a set together or even assembling a kit, this might be something up your alley. Generally, these are all completely sealed (save the Swiftech expandable H220 and 240 kits), so there's no maintenance. You typically have single 120mm or 140mm or dual-fan 240 or 280mm radiators available and should work in most modern cases. These AIO coolers are not on the same level as DIY or kits, but they perform similarly to high-end air coolers. Also, like many coolers, AIO use brackets that mount through the motherboard, so be aware of this before purchase. Some cases have a cutout behind the CPU area, but not all do. If not, you will have to remove your motherboard to facilitate the install.
Some of the brands with AIO watercooling kits are: Swiftech, Corsair, NZXT, Thermaltake, Cooler Master and Enermax.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top