I am getting the AIW 9800 Pro for $376 for Xmas and am wondering a few things. First of all, I have a Shuttle MS21 motherboard from 2000 and have only an AGP 2x/4x slot. Will the Radeon run at a significant loss next to AGP 8x? Second, I have 512 MB PC133 SDRAM(not DDR) and want to know if I should buy a new MoBo...so I can get the option for PC3200 ram. And third, if I get a new motherboard, will it support my AMD "T-Bird" Athlon 1200? I would definitely get an AMD MoBo with 400MHz FSB so i can upgrade later. Help me dudes, for HL2 may be out in as soon as a decade. Be prepared.
I have the AIW9800Pro..What next?
- Thread starter kid halo
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Anti-Trend
Nonconformist Geek
To Upgrade, or Not to Upgrade?
OK, get ready for a long answer. :)
Running your Radeon at half speed on the AGP bus won't matter at all for most current/older games, like Max Payne 2, MOHAA, etc. However, games like Unreal2, Savage and (maybe, if it ever comes out ;)), Half-Life2, you'll see a pretty noticeable performance hit. The AGP bus is where the huge memory transfers between frame buffer and video RAM takes place. On super-high polygon and pixel-shader complex games, that memory bus is very important. And, since your buffer is in system RAM, that PC133 will choke on a game like HL2. This not to mention the CPU. Even with the best video card in the world, with a relatively weak CPU like an 'ol T-Bird (no offense), high-polygon and advanced physics engines just won't run like you want. Since you'd actually basically just be building a new system around an old Chassis, PSU and optical/magnetic drives, I don't recommend an upgrade for you.
As someone who builds and repairs PCs for a living, I highly recommend simply leaving your current system in working order, and building a new system around that new video card. You can always give your old system to a relative, make it a server, or sell it to help cover the cost of the new system. In any case, it'll never perform as well as it could with that $400 video card. With a newer system, you could have an Athlon XP with a Barton core (or a 64-bit Athlon, if you're loaded ;)), 400MHz DDR, 8X AGP MoBo with NForce chipset, SATA HDDs, and CDRWs and good DVDROMs only cost around $30 in this day and age. I think you'd be a LOT better off that way, and you'd have an extra system as a bonus. Who couldn't use an extra system? :D
OK, get ready for a long answer. :)
Running your Radeon at half speed on the AGP bus won't matter at all for most current/older games, like Max Payne 2, MOHAA, etc. However, games like Unreal2, Savage and (maybe, if it ever comes out ;)), Half-Life2, you'll see a pretty noticeable performance hit. The AGP bus is where the huge memory transfers between frame buffer and video RAM takes place. On super-high polygon and pixel-shader complex games, that memory bus is very important. And, since your buffer is in system RAM, that PC133 will choke on a game like HL2. This not to mention the CPU. Even with the best video card in the world, with a relatively weak CPU like an 'ol T-Bird (no offense), high-polygon and advanced physics engines just won't run like you want. Since you'd actually basically just be building a new system around an old Chassis, PSU and optical/magnetic drives, I don't recommend an upgrade for you.
As someone who builds and repairs PCs for a living, I highly recommend simply leaving your current system in working order, and building a new system around that new video card. You can always give your old system to a relative, make it a server, or sell it to help cover the cost of the new system. In any case, it'll never perform as well as it could with that $400 video card. With a newer system, you could have an Athlon XP with a Barton core (or a 64-bit Athlon, if you're loaded ;)), 400MHz DDR, 8X AGP MoBo with NForce chipset, SATA HDDs, and CDRWs and good DVDROMs only cost around $30 in this day and age. I think you'd be a LOT better off that way, and you'd have an extra system as a bonus. Who couldn't use an extra system? :D
I have to disagree on a few things.
First, There's no noticeable difference between agp 8x and 4x. Maybe in benchmarks....but who cares about something you cannot notice right ?
Second, it seems you don't have that much money to spend since you're waiting for christmas for your card. So what I suggest is try to balance things a little because what you'll need is this:
- Quality DDR RAM : Never ever try to save money on RAM
- A Decent cpu
- An Nforce 2 mobo
As for the rest, I'm gonna' have to need your system specs.
The idea here is to space out your upgrade, keep your old parts, and then build your secondary system once you have finished upgrading.
I sugest going for a slower card (less expensive) and you could drop the all-in-wonder, unless you really really need it. You could grav an All-In-Wonder 9600 Pro for $219 at newegg.
After that, I suggest the Soltek 75FRN2-RL which costs $94 at newegg. It's quite expensive to be honest with you because I can have the same in Canada for the same price....in canadian dollars. So you can try and buy from ncix.com, this time the L version, and see if you get a better deal with the shipping and all included.
I know this isn'T a known board, but I personnally love it. The only problem I have is with the Lan, but a network card costs $5 so who cares ? It overclocks very well (check my sig) and gives great performance (look at reviews around the net).
Now, the cpu, no doubt here grab the Barton 2500+ for $91.
Memory: Kingston 256MB DDR 400 Memory, Model KVR400X64C3A/256 - Retail $45 * 2
I simply love it.
Let's sum up:
- Barton 2500 + : $91
- AIW 9600 Pro: $219
- 75FRN2-RL : $94
- Kingston DDR400 256mb * 2 = $90
total: $494
Ok: that's too much, but that's what you're aiming at.
You can ditch the cpu and buy it later. Be warned that your cpu will be the bottleneck for now, but you'll be left with a system that's faster overall than if you only bought an AIW 9800 Pro
First, There's no noticeable difference between agp 8x and 4x. Maybe in benchmarks....but who cares about something you cannot notice right ?
Second, it seems you don't have that much money to spend since you're waiting for christmas for your card. So what I suggest is try to balance things a little because what you'll need is this:
- Quality DDR RAM : Never ever try to save money on RAM
- A Decent cpu
- An Nforce 2 mobo
As for the rest, I'm gonna' have to need your system specs.
The idea here is to space out your upgrade, keep your old parts, and then build your secondary system once you have finished upgrading.
I sugest going for a slower card (less expensive) and you could drop the all-in-wonder, unless you really really need it. You could grav an All-In-Wonder 9600 Pro for $219 at newegg.
After that, I suggest the Soltek 75FRN2-RL which costs $94 at newegg. It's quite expensive to be honest with you because I can have the same in Canada for the same price....in canadian dollars. So you can try and buy from ncix.com, this time the L version, and see if you get a better deal with the shipping and all included.
I know this isn'T a known board, but I personnally love it. The only problem I have is with the Lan, but a network card costs $5 so who cares ? It overclocks very well (check my sig) and gives great performance (look at reviews around the net).
Now, the cpu, no doubt here grab the Barton 2500+ for $91.
Memory: Kingston 256MB DDR 400 Memory, Model KVR400X64C3A/256 - Retail $45 * 2
I simply love it.
Let's sum up:
- Barton 2500 + : $91
- AIW 9600 Pro: $219
- 75FRN2-RL : $94
- Kingston DDR400 256mb * 2 = $90
total: $494
Ok: that's too much, but that's what you're aiming at.
You can ditch the cpu and buy it later. Be warned that your cpu will be the bottleneck for now, but you'll be left with a system that's faster overall than if you only bought an AIW 9800 Pro
Ok, here's the deelyo:
AMD "T-Bird" Athlon 1.2 GHz
Shuttle MS21 Motherboard
512 MB PC100/133 SDRAM
300 W power supply
16x BTC DVD-ROM
12x10x32x CenDyne CD-RW
eVGA GeForce FX 5200
40GB 7200RPM(how do I find out more about my HDD?)
17" LCS Flat Panel Monitor-450:1 contrast ratio
_
Yes, I do agree with your idea of upgrading. However, high schoolers usually don't make too much money. I will stick with the AIW Radeon 9800 Pro because it is supposed to be a gift for Christmas, and where can one go wrong there? I would simply use the money from relatives to then buy that sweet MoBo you dudes were talking about from above, and possibly the 2500+ Barton with a 333MHz FSB. Then, in a couple months I would get that Kingston RAM you speak of. I really want the best video card here, even if it means sacrificing significant parts. Also, all of my games have been delayed(S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Doom 3, HL2, Far Cry) and I think now is the opportune time to upgrade.
_
The 75FRN2-RL- does it have Dual Channel? I was impressed with it's specs, but couldn't find a dual channnel option. I would definitely want this.
_
Oh yeah, this dude told me to get the 2500+ Barton also, and said that maybe in a little while I could upgrade to the 400MHz FSB AMD, as the prices would be dropping. At least this is what he would do.
:D
AMD "T-Bird" Athlon 1.2 GHz
Shuttle MS21 Motherboard
512 MB PC100/133 SDRAM
300 W power supply
16x BTC DVD-ROM
12x10x32x CenDyne CD-RW
eVGA GeForce FX 5200
40GB 7200RPM(how do I find out more about my HDD?)
17" LCS Flat Panel Monitor-450:1 contrast ratio
_
Yes, I do agree with your idea of upgrading. However, high schoolers usually don't make too much money. I will stick with the AIW Radeon 9800 Pro because it is supposed to be a gift for Christmas, and where can one go wrong there? I would simply use the money from relatives to then buy that sweet MoBo you dudes were talking about from above, and possibly the 2500+ Barton with a 333MHz FSB. Then, in a couple months I would get that Kingston RAM you speak of. I really want the best video card here, even if it means sacrificing significant parts. Also, all of my games have been delayed(S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Doom 3, HL2, Far Cry) and I think now is the opportune time to upgrade.
_
The 75FRN2-RL- does it have Dual Channel? I was impressed with it's specs, but couldn't find a dual channnel option. I would definitely want this.
_
Oh yeah, this dude told me to get the 2500+ Barton also, and said that maybe in a little while I could upgrade to the 400MHz FSB AMD, as the prices would be dropping. At least this is what he would do.
:D
Big B
HWF Godfather
Most nForce 2 boards are dual-channel. The single-channel boards available thus far have been put out by Soltek and Asus. I almost picked up the Soltek single-channel board myself on a few occasions. I definitely agree on not going the cheap route with RAM. Even though I have some pretty good stuff, the nForce 2 boards I tried to get working had an absolute fit. If you want to go with the nForce 2, pay good money for your RAM. And I mean the stuff like Corsair's XMS or Kingston's Hyper-X too. Also, with the CPU upgrade, there's only 1 or 2 Athlons with the 400MHz FSB, and they're like the 3000+ and 3200+ if I remember correctly. The 2500+ is a good price/performance chip and seems to OC pretty well.
While your optical drives aren't brands I'd go for, if they are working fine for you and are fast enough, keep 'em. If you want to upgrade, the DVD drive is fine, and unless you really need a DVD-burner, the Lite-ON 52x32x52x CD-RW drive I reviewed this week is really good.
I'd keep the 40GB hard drive for now. If nothing else, you can keep it around for backup, but if you get a newer drive with SATA and want to use that, I've found it's easier to just reinstall Windows on the new drive.
There is one (hopefully) good coming out: Deus Ex: Invisible War. I've reserved my copy already.
While your optical drives aren't brands I'd go for, if they are working fine for you and are fast enough, keep 'em. If you want to upgrade, the DVD drive is fine, and unless you really need a DVD-burner, the Lite-ON 52x32x52x CD-RW drive I reviewed this week is really good.
I'd keep the 40GB hard drive for now. If nothing else, you can keep it around for backup, but if you get a newer drive with SATA and want to use that, I've found it's easier to just reinstall Windows on the new drive.
There is one (hopefully) good coming out: Deus Ex: Invisible War. I've reserved my copy already.
The difference between the Kingston Value Ram and The Kingston HyperX is that the timings are tighter on the HyperX.
You will have to get the memory because that board only takes DDR memory.
As for the hdd, I'd just open the case and look at it.
the only other thing I'd look at is the power supply as it might be a little underpowered, but you can wait until you bought everything else and if it works, keep it, if not, you'll have to buy a more powerful one.
You will have to get the memory because that board only takes DDR memory.
As for the hdd, I'd just open the case and look at it.
the only other thing I'd look at is the power supply as it might be a little underpowered, but you can wait until you bought everything else and if it works, keep it, if not, you'll have to buy a more powerful one.
Ok, with the Soltek motherboard you guys were talking about, I have a counter-example of how great HyperX really is. A loyal customer from Newegg said he had problems with this memory and his MoBo and said that a lot of people had problems too. He also said to go with Corsair instead. Here-check it out from the dude at the bottom of the page- http://secure.newegg.com/app/CustratingReview.asp?item=20-144-107 :confused:
There's no such thing as a memory that will work great for everyone. I know a guy that can't get past 210mhz with his shiny Corsair XMS platinum DDR400, and that's on the Soltek 75FRN2-RL.
What I know is that Kingston Value Ram worked for me. I don't know about the HyperX.
I personnally recommend Kingston Value Ram. Corsair is also good, but it's also more expensive.
What I know is that Kingston Value Ram worked for me. I don't know about the HyperX.
I personnally recommend Kingston Value Ram. Corsair is also good, but it's also more expensive.
Big B
HWF Godfather
Most info you'd really need is available without looking at the hard drive itself. The manufacturer is important for support reasons, but that can be seen through Device Manager in Windows.
And harrack's right; experiences with RAM (and pretty much any product) vary from person to person. I used two completely different nForce 2 motherboards before giving up on that and just going to an i865P board instead. My Kingston Value RAM works fine in that board. At that point, a working rig was more important than hassling with the nForce 2, even though I could've easily ordered something off Newegg. I didn't want to have to deal with memory issues any further and just worked with the available stuff in town.
And harrack's right; experiences with RAM (and pretty much any product) vary from person to person. I used two completely different nForce 2 motherboards before giving up on that and just going to an i865P board instead. My Kingston Value RAM works fine in that board. At that point, a working rig was more important than hassling with the nForce 2, even though I could've easily ordered something off Newegg. I didn't want to have to deal with memory issues any further and just worked with the available stuff in town.
I checked in Device Manager for HDD manufacturer and got this long name- "IC35L040AVER07 0-0". So..ahem..do you think Value Ram is far under par than the HyperX? Just gimme a reccomendation out of the air. Keep in mind, I will be breaking the bank with all these upgrades- Barton 2500+, Soltek MoBo, Ram(?) out of my own pocket. All from me.
Big B
HWF Godfather
Looks to be an IBM drive...and I think of the 60GXP line. On second though, you might wanna look at a new drive a little sooner. Those weren't as bad as the 75GXP line as far as failures go, but neither one I had made it through a year after purchase. I won't touch IBM again, even though Hitachi bought their HDD line.
If you're someone who plans on doing some major overclocking, the Value RAM isn't guaranteed to be stellar, but I've heard good things about it. It works fine, but it's not extreme stuff. Personally, I've been pretty happy with Samsung, but I'm generally not that picky about stuff. I would stay away from PNY RAM. Poor quality at the same price as better RAM from Samsung, Crucial or Kingston.
Here's a something you might look at for now: http://secure.newegg.com/app/WishList.asp?position=HISTORY&submit=VIEW&ID=481308
If you get a faster CPU, you're likely gonna have to get a new heatsink to go with it. The retail cooling for the Athlons is okay, and the difference at Newegg between the 2500+ OEM and Retail is like $8. I didn't include that on the list since you can always go back later and buy a faster CPU and heatsink at another time. The other thing you'll need to think about is a new power supply. Anymore, I wouldn't do anything less than 350W either.
If you're someone who plans on doing some major overclocking, the Value RAM isn't guaranteed to be stellar, but I've heard good things about it. It works fine, but it's not extreme stuff. Personally, I've been pretty happy with Samsung, but I'm generally not that picky about stuff. I would stay away from PNY RAM. Poor quality at the same price as better RAM from Samsung, Crucial or Kingston.
Here's a something you might look at for now: http://secure.newegg.com/app/WishList.asp?position=HISTORY&submit=VIEW&ID=481308
If you get a faster CPU, you're likely gonna have to get a new heatsink to go with it. The retail cooling for the Athlons is okay, and the difference at Newegg between the 2500+ OEM and Retail is like $8. I didn't include that on the list since you can always go back later and buy a faster CPU and heatsink at another time. The other thing you'll need to think about is a new power supply. Anymore, I wouldn't do anything less than 350W either.
I definitely will upgrade my hard drive to probably 80GB in the time to come because I have just taken up the interest of making movies from my games with programs such as F.R.A.P.S. and TotalRecorder. A 10 minute gameplay video takes up 4gigs!
And yes, I would also definitely get the retail version of the cpu. I've heard too many bad things about OEM to even consider them. For example, some people say that OEM things can be refurbished or bulk(?) items and that the video cards can even be slightly underclocked. Maybe it's just false rumor.
And yes, I would also definitely get the retail version of the cpu. I've heard too many bad things about OEM to even consider them. For example, some people say that OEM things can be refurbished or bulk(?) items and that the video cards can even be slightly underclocked. Maybe it's just false rumor.
Big B
HWF Godfather
Bulk just means they bought a big bundle of them. If they purchase a certain amount of a product, their supplier or the company that makes it would give them a discount. That in turn, at least with the respectable retailers, is passed along to you the consumer. OEM is usually just the product itself w/o extras. Some, not all video cards that are OEM can come underclocked. Good retailers will state this is so. They are typically cheaper than the full version. Again, these are the bare card in most cases. They're not rumors, and not necessarily bad. It's who you buy from. Rebfurbs aren't bad either, but places like Newegg have a refurbished section separate from the brand new products. OEM does not mean it's an inferior product. A refurb product can be fine, but maybe there was something that the original user couldn't fix and the company did that for them. They can't sell it as brand new and mark it down, sometimes significantly.
A question for harrack32...
What was your 3DMARK03 score? Since I will pretty much be having the same system as you at the end of December, except for my retail AIW9800PRO, I'm just curious to see how you performed. My last 3DMARK03 score was 916 or something. Am I in for a real treat with all these upgrades? :blah:
What was your 3DMARK03 score? Since I will pretty much be having the same system as you at the end of December, except for my retail AIW9800PRO, I'm just curious to see how you performed. My last 3DMARK03 score was 916 or something. Am I in for a real treat with all these upgrades? :blah:
Like I said before, if you always keep waiting for the next card, you'll never buy one. Also, the R420 will definitely be more expensive.
You have three options:
- Buy the card now
- Buy the R420 when it comes out
- Buy the 9800 Pro when the R420 comes out in the hope that it will drop in price
You have three options:
- Buy the card now
- Buy the R420 when it comes out
- Buy the 9800 Pro when the R420 comes out in the hope that it will drop in price