new router

[donkey42]

right, i've being researching this all day[ot]& yes, it has being a very exiting and fun day[/ot]and i narrow it down to 3 routers, they are all from Draytek

• Vigor 2800V @ £139.99
• Vigor 2800VG @ £144.99
• Vigor 2800VGI @ £179.99

from misco

i know these are the Rolls Royce of routers, and i rang my dad & he said he'd sort something out[ot]meaning he'd pay for it[/ot]so, what does everybody think ?

i really would value your input AT

BTW: if your going to do something, do it right & in style

i think i'm going for the first 1, Vigor 2800V not just because it's cheaper, but, if i want to add wireless to my network at a later date i can just put wireless dongle in a spare Ethernet port

 

[Anti-Trend]

i really would value your input AT

Well, it looks like it has a lot of small office features that you may not use, e.g. VOIP. I'm not sure that you need all the features it provides. Then again, maybe you do and I just don't know it. What features are you looking for? What's most important to you in a router?

 

[donkey42]

What features are you looking for?

i don't know

What's most important to you in a router?

i think some features may not be used for a while, but, i don't know what i want until i use or attempt to use until i obviously start using it

as you specified VoIP, i would like to experiment with VoIP, cos i've never used it & i would like to if for nothing else but to prove it to myself, try to get it working

@AT big thankies, i really do value your input

BTW: i started a post / thread yesterday asking which router was best, but, i thought, no, find out for yourself, so, that's what i did, & i'm a little bit pleased with myself, that you didn't say they are crap routers i've come up with

 

[donkey42]

i've being reading op on stuff on the net & i feel like i could be reading explanation & trying to understand thing forever, so, what i've decided to do is: receive money from everybody for my birthday and hope i get enough money to buy the cheaper 1, & learn about it as i'm doing it[ot]sh1t it' complicated[/ot]but i guess it'll all come together as and when i start playing with it

BTW: i wish myself luck

Edit: i think i'm going to get 1 eventually because it can do pretty much anything i want to do ever, obviously with some other stuff

 

[Anti-Trend]

AT big thankies, i really do value your input

My pleasure, glad to help.

i've being reading op on stuff on the net & i feel like i could be reading explanation & trying to understand thing forever, so, what i've decided to do is: receive money from everybody for my birthday and hope i get enough money to buy the cheaper 1, & learn about it as i'm doing it

Well, one of the best ways to learn is by doing. One small piece of advice though: for me, I learn even faster if I read up on a topic while I'm working with it. That really helps it to stick in my brain.

Additionally, you might want to try building your own router sometime. You could take a prefabricated distro like IPCop (based on Linux 2.4/Smoothwall) or pfSense (based on FreeBSD/m0n0wall) and build your own high-end router. If you already have an old PC you can use for this purpose, all you need is a few cheap NICs and you've got a really great firewalled router. If you really wanted to get down & dirty, you could experiment with routing & firewalling features of a raw Linux or FreeBSD install. That would teach you a lot about the OS, and a lot about the underlying concepts. I'd start with a prefab first though, so you can see how they're supposed to behave before trying to implement it yourself.

 

[donkey42]

Well, one of the best ways to learn is by doing. One small piece of advice though: for me, I learn even faster if I read up on a topic while I'm working with it. That really helps it to stick in my brain.

good idea, i usually just bodge my way through or make it up as i go & i usually only refer to the manual as a last resort, but, i do realize that i must start reading those god forsaken manuals

you might want to try building your own router sometime.

yeah, i will

If you already have an old PC you can use for this purpose,

got an old 233Mhz (i think it's an AMD or a Cyrix) with 64Mb Edo got it from freecycle

That would teach you a lot about the OS, and a lot about the underlying concepts.

sounds like fun[ot]yeah right[/ot]

I'd start with a prefab first though, so you can see how they're supposed to behave before trying to implement it yourself.

another top tip from AT, will do, if i get enough money for my birthday

BTW: it'll probably take me months to get a server online using either method

BTW: thank you so much, all help is very much appreciated

BTW: i already thought i knew what you'd say unless you siad the router were crap, although i didn't think they were crap (just hoped you were not going to say they were crap)

 

[Anti-Trend]

BTW: i already thought i knew what you'd say unless you siad the router were crap, although i didn't think they were crap (just hoped you were not going to say they were crap)

Well, to be honest all home-grade routers are crap. That's why I asked what you want to do with them. If you just want to surf with one or two computers, just about any router will do. If you want to do stuff live SPI, VPN, QoS, traffic shaping, content filtering, multiple subnets, security zones (DMZ, wireless, etc), you will either have to build one or raise your budget substantially. :) BTW, if you have a 233MHz system with 64mb of RAM, that'd be perfect for IPCop but not enough for pfSense. So you could build an IPCop for cheaper than a home-grade router just by adding a few $5 network cards to it. IPCop is easier to install than most operating systems out there, so I don't think you'd have trouble getting it running.

 

[donkey42]

Well, to be honest all home-grade routers are crap. That's why I asked what you want to do with them. If you just want to surf with one or two computers, just about any router will do. If you want to do stuff live SPI, VPN, QoS, traffic shaping, content filtering, multiple subnets, security zones (DMZ, wireless, etc), you will either have to build one or raise your budget substantially.

well, i'd love to do that, but, i don't see my budget increasing substantially any time soon, unless i somehow discovery a way to time travel in the next couple of years,

BTW, if you have a 233MHz system with 64mb of RAM, that'd be perfect for IPCop but not enough for pfSense. So you could build an IPCop for cheaper than a home-grade router just by adding a few $5 network cards to it. IPCop is easier to install than most operating systems out there, so I don't think you'd have trouble getting it running.

i'm going to DL IPCop and experiment with it as a VM

BTW: any of ATs top tips, & i'm DL IPCop now

thank you so much for your help, i don't understand why your helping me, could you please explain ?

 

[donkey42]

Hi AT, after many conversations with both my dad and my carer (both don't understand about computers as much as me)

i've being advised to find a router less than £100 because i've discovered my dad is also giving me £50 for my birthday, so, £50 from dad + 50 from grandma = 100, so, i'm going to search for a router that is less than £100, could you please suggest 1 ?

BTW: searching now

 

[max12590]

I would stick to making your own router. I am running Smoothwall on a machine I got for free. I have 2 network cards in it and then a switch to split the connection inside the network. It works like a charm and gives you all the functionality you need. Take a look at Smoothwall and then if it doesn't offer enough functionality look at IPCop or other distros. OS installation is a breeze and router configurations is no harder than any other router.

Honestly I don't see a reason to ever spend that much on a home router. If speed is what you're worried about go for gigabit hardware, the router is rarely the bottleneck in a home network.

 

[donkey42]

i've being looking for an online store that just tells you what info was required when searching for a new router (in UK) after viewing many sites that do not provide all the info i wanted. i found a router that i think is quite good here

BTW: i will not be enabling wireless until i've done a lot of reseach

@max: how / have you VoIP enabled on your home made router, if so, how ?, or do you use SIP phones ?

Edit: opinions welcome

 

[Anti-Trend]

how / have you VoIP enabled on your home made router, if so, how ?, or do you use SIP phones ?

VOIP is handled as a subscriber service you must pay for. Any *nix based router can act as a SIP gateway easily, and it's easier to give VOIP traffic higher-priority with traffic shaping and/or QoS. :)

 

[max12590]

VOIP is handled as a subscriber service you must pay for. Any *nix based router can act as a SIP gateway easily, and it's easier to give VOIP traffic higher-priority with traffic shaping and/or QoS. :)

I don't use VOIP, so all that is over my head, but, uhh... yea. What he said.

 

[donkey42]

all that is over my head

yeah, me too, but, hopefully not for long

Any *nix based router can act as a SIP gateway easily

yeah, i know there are 2 ways to do anything / everything & the expensive way is always easy & the hard way is always cheap or free

BTW: i'm trying to do things the hard way because my finances are very limited

i've also ordered this router, because i think my current router is holding me back by not supporting stuff like DDNS & it's the first router i've found that supports DDNS & 802.11g WPA & WPA2 (even though i won't enable it until i'm sure i can make it secure)[ot]paranoia[/ot]

although there are probably many fetchers that i will not use for many months, but, i can never experiment with fetchers i don't have, anything to add ?

 

[John k]

BTW: i'm trying to do things the hard way because my finances are very limited

4-PORT VOIP ROUTER FIREWALL

Wokrs out a bit cheaper;)

 

[donkey42]

bit cheaper;)

thankies, but, that site may quote the make & model of the router, but, as with almost any other site in the UK, they quote things that the particular router has or doesn't have, e.g the title of the page you posted says 4 port VoIP router & on the actual page it says it has 3 ports, whereas, Comzign appear to give the customer all the correct info they need to purchase the router they want

BTW: i visited over 200 online shops (UK based) trying to find a supplier that doesn't just care about getting money off people, but, actually care that their customers are actually getting exactly what they want[ot][noparse]you forgot [/ [/noparse]from the start of the close quote[/ot]but thank you anyway

Edit: you can edit you post to correct it if you want by click "Edit" at the bottom right of the post you made

Edit: i'm reffering to the number of ethernet ports above

 

[John k]

thankies, but, that site may quote the make & model of the router, but, as with almost any other site in the UK, they quote things that the particular router has or doesn't have, e.g the title of the page you posted says 4 port VoIP router & on the actual page it says it has 3 ports, whereas, Comzign appear to give the customer all the correct info they need to purchase the router they want

BTW: i visited over 200 online shops (UK based) trying to find a supplier that doesn't just care about getting money off people, but, actually care that their customers are actually getting exactly what they want[ot][noparse]you forgot [/ [/noparse]from the start of the close quote[/ot]but thank you anyway

Edit: you can edit you post to correct it if you want by click "Edit" at the bottom right of the post you made

Edit: i'm reffering to the number of ethernet ports above

Yeah..Just trying to be helpful :)
..but i know where you're coming from..i dont like to buy things off the net if the description on a website is not what im looking for......even though the product might be right....if you no what i mean:confused:

Oh and thanks for correcting me (recent brain injury disrupts way of thinking nowadays)

 

[donkey42]

Yeah..Just trying to be helpful

yeah, & i thank you for that

..but i know where you're coming from..i dont like to buy things off the net if the description on a website is not what im looking for......even though the product might be right....if you no what i mean

exactly, i can't afford to waste money on something that might or might not be what i want

recent brain injury disrupts way of thinking nowadays

you get used to it, it's over 10 years since i had my car accident

BTW: people don't care about stuff like that on forums, they just want their problems fixed

disabled, brain damaged and i've being using Linux for about 2 or 3 years, i switch to Linux because a clean install of XP only lasted about a month (my fault, whatever it claim it could do, i'd take it at it's word) and then i had to reactivate by phone

i soon got fed up with that & figured bo11ocks to it, i'll have a go with Linux & i'm glad i did because i don't use a firewall or antivirus, so, i've just got to avoid Wine or only schedule AV scans where Wine is installed about once a week

my current router & my new router has a built in hardware firewall because i'm paranoid

Edit: BTW: downloading Kubuntu Gutsy Gibbon now

 

[DaRuSsIaMaN]

My pleasure, glad to help.
Additionally, you might want to try building your own router sometime. You could take a prefabricated distro like IPCop (based on Linux 2.4/Smoothwall) or pfSense (based on FreeBSD/m0n0wall) and build your own high-end router. If you already have an old PC you can use for this purpose, all you need is a few cheap NICs and you've got a really great firewalled router. If you really wanted to get down & dirty, you could experiment with routing & firewalling features of a raw Linux or FreeBSD install. That would teach you a lot about the OS, and a lot about the underlying concepts. I'd start with a prefab first though, so you can see how they're supposed to behave before trying to implement it yourself.

That's a pretty cool concept. One thing I'm wondering about, though: wouldn't running a full computer as a router use significantly more electricity than an "ordinary" router? Do you know the answer to this, AT? I'm just curious in case I ever want to try this out.

Since, donkey, you said specifically that your finances are very limited, maybe you would want to save on electricity bills? Hehe, I know from personal experience how utility bills always tend to take up more money than I expect...

 

[Anti-Trend]

That's a pretty cool concept. One thing I'm wondering about, though: wouldn't running a full computer as a router use significantly more electricity than an "ordinary" router? Do you know the answer to this, AT? I'm just curious in case I ever want to try this out.

Usually yes, it does use more power. If you really want to be frugal with power consumption, you could build based on an embedded form-factor, such as Soekris. I usually just use a cast-off low-end PC, which is low-power consumption by nature. Right now my firewall is built from an old small form-factor IBM somebody gave me; 400MHz K6-2, 256mb PC100, 8gb HDD, 150watt PSU. Runs fine, and gets the job done.