Hahah... that sucks... I am going to have a look-see and if thats true, i am unfortunately, going to quit too.
I'll quit as well then, perhaps we should find a @Home project thats beneficial of our machines.. with a more moral approach
Yeah, I was feeling really good about doing something beneficial for others with my spare cycles! *sigh* If anyone hears of a distributed computing project similar to F@H which will really help people, please let us know! Also, I'd really be interested in any information contrary to what I've heard lately. I'd love to hear that F@H does not directly benefit unsavory forms of technology. Unfortunately, I know too little about bio engineering to really know this for myself, so I'll have to rely on the knowledge and experience of others on this topic.
yeah I'm kinda pissed off about putting so much effort, time and work into something in my eyes so depraved. I guess I'll start looking out for a new project as well
Regarding this i phoned one of my Aunts whilst on the way to work, who is a dermatologist (not a bio-engineer) but she is a very qualified doctor who runs her own practise in london. After explaining and querying F@H, she said she already knew of these "Folding" projects and said that really it's up to the individuals personal beliefs as to whether or not they run these projects as anything that maps the human body for better understanding is going to have serious implications to medical science (for better and for worst). Obviously, like the GNome project (mapped the human DNA), mapping the human DNA has allowed scientists a better understanding of the human body than ever before - obviously these projects have HUGE advantages as mapping the Human DNA structure / Protein Arrangements will enable great great advances in medical science and the human body. To put it into a simple statement from a great film: (Spider Man) I'm subsequently going to carry on folding, their will always be contrevoursy surrounding projects such as this, i do not believe that the Folding @ Home project has any sort of evil asperations, there are "morally wrong" implications of having such information, but its the same with anything.. And so, i am going to carry on folding, i've heard a professionals opinion, i have my own and i believe its in the interest of the Human Race and future generations. There will always be people who mis-use information of scientific research, i doubt in this case it will be to a significant extent or at all, all i Know now is that i'm doing a Morally RIGHT thing with my computer, thats going to help future generations live longer, and help to stop people suffering. Message to AT: "Should you have been allowed to learn Linux / Networking & Security to the extent that your knowledge now holds? - Your doing the right thing with your knowledge ie: not using it in a malicious way, however you "could".."
Just to add, i've been spending some time searching the net surrounding this, and have found a very good article which explains to the "Average Joe" of biomedical research, the inns and outs of the Folding cycle. Please all before you stop folding take some time to sit down and read this: http://www.faseb.org/opar/protfold/protein.html If some of you are still unsure as to Folding or not, i think it would be a good time for ALL of us, to stop Folding and start afresh on a new project, such as [google]Seti @ Home[/google] or [google]BOINC Distributed Project[/google]. I think it would also attract more people to start folding in the team as obviously everyone is starting from scratch.
What!!!??? I've just started folding!!! but ill have a look on the issues, AT got a point there so as Procal.... As for now ill continue folding until theres a concrete proof that Protein Folding is being used in gene manipulation(ie. cloning)....
Of course Protein Folding is being used in gene manipulation! For example: If i wanted to create some form of "Gene Disease" that would effect millions of people because i'm an evil bastard, to do it succesfully i would need to manipulate Protein Folding, and to do so i would HAVE to understand the Proteins i am using, and the way the Fold & Unfold. Gene Manipulation without knowledge of Protein Folding would be like saying i'm going to build a new computer without any power.. IT WOULDNT WORK! But on the other side of things, if someone did do this - very unlikely due to the amount of work involved and the technology needed, WITHOUT understanding how Proteins Fold / Unfold we would not be able to Combat it / Cure it. Also there is always the possibility of Human Error that something like this could be caused, whether its chemical research, or someone crashing 2 lorries together.. Now you see the Advantages / Disadvantages. What if someone, somewhere wanted to create a Gene Disease, or a new Disease or a hybrid of a current disease such as Cancer or Alzeihmers... if they new roughly what knowledge they needed regarding certain Proteins as to accomplish this, and they managed to gain that knowledge.. without knowledge of Protein Folding in the hands of the "good guys", we would not be able to combat it. (again this could happen as a result of an accident as i said above). I've done a reasonable amount of research and spoken to a Very qualified doctor who has to deal with biomedical cures on a regular basis, and i see no problem with this.
I'm sure that Vijay Pande of Stanford wasn't going to use this data for malicious intent. For now I'm going to carry one folding. Wether I'll quit or not like some of you will depend on what happens. Until next time...
Hmm...this is a revolting deveopment. I'd still like to have a distributed computing, so let's come up with another DC project that we can pretty much agree on. I know SETI is another big one, but I'd been hearing about that project eventually going under. I could be mistaken or misread something.
I see your point, but I suspect you may be missing mine. My point is not to avoid knowledge which may or may not be used for evil purposes. Case in point, I am a believer that qualified and responsible people should posses firearms, so that not only criminals will posses them. A natural "check and balance", if you will. The same principle applies to Linux, networking, and security. If you know how that stuff works, you can conceivably use it for the harm of others. Conversely, if you don't know how that stuff works, you can still be harmed by those who do. I don't see bio-engineering the same way at all. If the technology is helpful medically, it has great potential for positive implications. On the other hand, if the technology is more useful to those who would toy with humanity (and life itself) as a cat toys with a wounded mouse, I will not support it. We've probably all heard of the real-life chimeras. I've been told that protein folding and genome simulations are much more useful to the latter type than the former, which is a shadow of doubt in my mind. I want a clean conscience about what my computer resources are accomplishing, not to wonder if I'm helping along some new era of human suffering. There will always be disease, but there need not be abominations of nature created just for the sake of creation. I'd rather not participate if the consequences of my actions have more negative than positive implications. In other words, I don't want to be a brick-maker for the next Tower of Babel. So far, I haven't been able to find out any definitive information on the actual negative implications of F@H, as Stanford has neglected to post any information on the subject. Whether this is intentional or just an oversight I have no idea. I have no bias toward Stanford nor against F@H -- it's sounded like a great project to me since the beginning, and I love the idea of using my spare cycles to do something helpful for others. If anybody can find out further information on the subject, please make it known. I'd love to continue folding with a clear conscience on the matter. -AT
Although a lot of stem-cell engineering and all that sounds evil we probably get this image mostly from the media. I have no opinion on the ethical side of it but i find it fascinating.
Yup, accourding to one of the top guys in the Stanford F@H project, F@H is a very positive thing that anyone can feel proud to stand behind. I'm going back to folding, and hope everybody will join me. -AT P.S. - Thanks to Prof. Pande for taking the time to answer our questions!
